Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Mikey »

You're talkign about differences in brain chemistry describing criminals; but those changes in neurotransmitter activity are little different than those in a "normal" non-criminal after sex, exertion, particularly good news, etc., etc.

Furthermore, as Rochey pointed out in passing (but which bears further attention) the point isn't whether or not a person would react the same way as a true criminal in a simulation; the point is whether or not that person can and/or will distinguish between a known simulation and reality.

This idea of the unknown simulation is academic and bears little on the topic. If someone performed horribly criminal acts upon holodeck characters without knowing that they weren't real, then yes - he is likely to act the same way towards real people. That's not the issue at hand.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by SomosFuga »

Mikey wrote: This idea of the unknown simulation is academic and bears little on the topic. If someone performed horribly criminal acts upon holodeck characters without knowing that they weren't real, then yes - he is likely to act the same way towards real people. That's not the issue at hand.
Even then there is no crime.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by stitch626 »

SomosFuga wrote:
Mikey wrote: This idea of the unknown simulation is academic and bears little on the topic. If someone performed horribly criminal acts upon holodeck characters without knowing that they weren't real, then yes - he is likely to act the same way towards real people. That's not the issue at hand.
Even then there is no crime.
The only reason it isn't a crime is because holodecks don't exist yet and as such there are no laws regarding them.


Since I am at best a novice debater, I will concede all points as I see this going nowhere. However, I leave you with this thought...
If you die in the holodeck due to the safety protocols being deactivated, are you any less dead because it was a simulation and not real?
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Aaron »

stitch626 wrote: If you die in the holodeck due to the safety protocols being deactivated, are you any less dead because it was a simulation and not real?
No, however the beings generated in the holodeck are not real.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by stitch626 »

Cpl Kendall wrote:
stitch626 wrote: If you die in the holodeck due to the safety protocols being deactivated, are you any less dead because it was a simulation and not real?
No, however the beings generated in the holodeck are not real.
And when's the last time someone died from something not real?
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Mikey »

That's a nice play on semantics, but again academic. The things in the holodeck are real, insofar as they are real constructs of holograms and force fields. That means that a character from a holonovel is a real construct, but not a real person.

A more relevant question is: if you murder something that isn't a real person, did you actually murder someone?

There is no difference save one of cosmetics if I were to tear up a picture of someone. I think you'd agree that such an act is hardly murder.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Lt. Staplic »

If you die on the holodeck because the safties are turned off, then you are a moron that deserves to die.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Mikey »

Well, there's that too. :lol:
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Lt. Staplic »

well, my gf has a theory about stupid people like that....It's called Canibilistic Social Darwinism....I think she's going to explain it in here shortly... :happydevil:
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by The Lt.'s Girl »

I hate stupid people so I'm going to kill them and eat them. There are two benefits to this. One you get rid of the stupid people and two it will solve hunger problems as there are an abundance of stupid people. This theory was created by my friend and I last year due to the stupid people in my biology class.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Tsukiyumi »

The Lt.'s Girl wrote:I hate stupid people so I'm going to kill them and eat them. There are two benefits to this. One you get rid of the stupid people and two it will solve hunger problems as there are an abundance of stupid people. This theory was created by my friend and I last year due to the stupid people in my biology class.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Sionnach Glic »

stitch626 wrote:The only reason it isn't a crime is because holodecks don't exist yet and as such there are no laws regarding them.
And if they did exist, you'd be required to give logical reasons why certain activities would be illegal in it. And "I don't like it" is not a valid reason.
stitch626 wrote:If you die in the holodeck due to the safety protocols being deactivated, are you any less dead because it was a simulation and not real?
No, you're still dead. So what? You can die while driving your car, too. Should we outlaw cars?
stitch626 wrote:And when's the last time someone died from something not real?
Of course they're real. They're real projections of light combined with forcefields to simulate the human form. That doesn't make them real people, though. Even if they can kill you when they malfunction.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Aaron »

stitch626 wrote: And when's the last time someone died from something not real?
Sweet Jebus, stop semantics whoring! You know damn well that the constructs in the holodeck are neither sentient nor sapient. Do you feel bad that you ran over a damn pop can in your car?
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Tsukiyumi »

Cpl Kendall wrote:
stitch626 wrote: And when's the last time someone died from something not real?
Sweet Jebus, stop semantics whoring! You know damn well that the constructs in the holodeck are neither sentient nor sapient. Do you feel bad that you ran over a damn pop can in your car?
When I was a kid, I felt bad when I ate chocolate bunnies.

It's amazing what traumatic experiences and eventual weathering of your naive optimism by observation of society does to you.
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Re: Limits of the Holodeck (Legal/Moral)

Post by Aaron »

Tsukiyumi wrote:
When I was a kid, I felt bad when I ate chocolate bunnies.
Yeah, when you where a kid.
It's amazing what traumatic experiences and eventual weathering of your naive optimism by observation of society does to you.
True enough.
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