What class ship is the USS Melbourne?

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:49 am

over on memory Alpha, there are two articles for the USS Melbourne. One of them is for a Nebula class vessel, and the other one is for an Excelsior class vessel. The basis for this is the fact that the model labelled Melbourne in "The Best of Both Worlds" was a nebula class vessel, although the more detailed Excelsior class model was filmed when it played a more important role in the DS9 pilot episode.

To allow for this, Memory Alpha speculates (yes, speculates) that the Excelsior class vessel was an older vessel which was retired shortly before the Borg invasion, then quickly pressed back into service after the Nebula class Melbourne was commissioned. A clumsy explanation if ever there was one.

Now, as far as I am concerned, the melbourne was only ever an Excelsior class vessel. there's direct on screen evidence to support that. However, at no time do we see a nebula class vessel labelled Melbourne. (True, the filming model from BoBW was lebelled such, but it was never readable on screen. So, we have a source on screen and a different source that comes from behind the scenes only that are contradictory.

So there are three options. Go with the on screen evidence being the authoritative source, disregard onscreen evidence to go with what came first, or create an implausible speculation and try to keep a behind the scenes source as equal to direct on screen evidence.

What is your view on this? What class ship was the Melbourne?

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 5:20 am

I see no real problem with Memory Alphas explanation of how it happened. A bit of a stretch but still beliveable.

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:22 am

It's treating background information as being just as legitimate as canon on-screen evidence (against Memory Alpha's own policies), and forming speculation to justify that violation of policy - and speculation isn't allowed there.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:51 am

Tiberius wrote:It's treating background information as being just as legitimate as canon on-screen evidence (against Memory Alpha's own policies), and forming speculation to justify that violation of policy - and speculation isn't allowed there.

Well, from by admittedly sketchy memory of BoBW Pt 2, the wreck of a Nebula-class ship drifts on-screen just as Shelby memtions the Melbourne as being lost, so there's some canon evidence.

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:21 am

Captain Seafort wrote:
Tiberius wrote:It's treating background information as being just as legitimate as canon on-screen evidence (against Memory Alpha's own policies), and forming speculation to justify that violation of policy - and speculation isn't allowed there.
Well, from by admittedly sketchy memory of BoBW Pt 2, the wreck of a Nebula-class ship drifts on-screen just as Shelby memtions the Melbourne as being lost, so there's some canon evidence.

true, but nothing labelled "Melbourne" in any readable way. And there were lots of other ships there as well.

And given that the Enterprise has a 3D viewscreen and the camera was looking at it from a very slanted angle, it's entirely possible that Shelby could see wrecks that we couldn't.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 10:48 am

It could just be that two ships were put into service with the same name. Nothing unusual about that. I'm sure you could find modern ships which share names. And there are only so many things you could call a ship before you run out of ideas!

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:40 am

Rochey wrote:It could just be that two ships were put into service with the same name. Nothing unusual about that. I'm sure you could find modern ships which share names. And there are only so many things you could call a ship before you run out of ideas!

True, it may be possible, but it is pure speculation and not based on any evidence. In fact, the actual modela of the nebula class ship used had only an incomplete registry number, and did not have the name USS Melbourne on it at all.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:30 pm

I always thought that back stage comments were taken as cannon unless contradicted in the show. I may be wrong however.
And such a conclusion does fit the facts. With a fleet numbering in the thousands you will start repeating names.

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:13 pm

Rochey wrote:I always thought that back stage comments were taken as cannon unless contradicted in the show. I may be wrong however.
And such a conclusion does fit the facts. With a fleet numbering in the thousands you will start repeating names.

But there's no reason to conclude there were two Melbournes at all unless you consider backstage info to be just as authoritative as on screen evidence.

In any case, the backstage information that the melbourne was nebula class WAS contradicted by the onscreen evidence shown in emissary.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:52 pm

But there's no reason to conclude there were two Melbournes at all unless you consider backstage info to be just as authoritative as on screen evidence.

Actually, simple logic would conclude that it would be nearly innevitable that two ships might share the same name. There is nothing preventing it.

In any case, the backstage information that the melbourne was nebula class WAS contradicted by the onscreen evidence shown in emissary.

True, but this still dosen't mean that two ships may not have the same name.

Does it really matter that two ships have the same name anyway?
We know one ship was definately called the Melbourne, we saw a ship with no name and the writers named it the Melbourne. I see no problem with that.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:09 pm

Forgive the ignorance, but wasn't the Melbourne the Excellsior class that we see at the begining of BoBW Part I, along side the Enterprise? Or was that an unnamed ship?

Tiberius · Post by **Tiberius** » Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:24 pm

it's often considered that the melbourne was Hanson's flagship and the ship we saw him on during that battle ("The fight does not go well, Enterprise!" and all that), however, there's no evidence on screen for it. The only reason the melbourne is special in BoBW is that Riker was offered it.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:14 am

Tiberius wrote:it's often considered that the melbourne was Hanson's flagship and the ship we saw him on during that battle ("The fight does not go well, Enterprise!" and all that), however, there's no evidence on screen for it. The only reason the melbourne is special in BoBW is that Riker was offered it.

The script for BoBW refers to the bridge of Hanson's flagship as Galaxy class, which would seem to rule out both Melbournes.

I Am Spartacus · Post by **I Am Spartacus** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:40 pm

It was an Excelsior class vessel.

There, I just solved the entire debate.

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:30 pm

I Am Spartacus wrote:It was an Excelsior class vessel.

There, I just solved the entire debate.

Indeed you ARE Spartacus