What ships in Starfleet are considered Battleships?

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:30 pm

Was wondering what ships in Starfleet are Battleships? Is the Galaxy, the Sovereign, Excelsior, Nebula or any other ships considered Battleships?

Also heard that the term Explorer is another word for Battleship, anyone know if this is true?

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:36 pm

Galaxies and Soveriegns are battleships in the federation. I think Excelsiors are cruisers.

Also heard that the term Explorer is another word for Battleship, anyone know if this is true?

It seems to be in Star Trek.

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:50 pm

Rochey wrote:Galaxies and Soveriegns are battleships in the federation. I think Excelsiors are cruisers.

Also heard that the term Explorer is another word for Battleship, anyone know if this is true?
It seems to be in Star Trek.

Really I allways thought that the Galaxy was considered a Explorer and that in military terms a Explorer was closer or compaired to a Heavy Cruiser or a Battle Cruiser. But of course non of this is cannon or anything.

Just trying to figure out how a ship that is used mainly for exploration and diplomatic mission, and talks about peace and all would be considered a Battleship.

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:50 pm

According to Websters a Battleship is "a warship of the largest and most heavily armed and armored class".

The Enterprises usually fit this description; they are usually shown as the largest of their time, and usually depicted as having the heaviest weaponry and shielding.

So in the TNG era, the Galaxy class are the battleships of Starfleet.

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 9:54 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:According to Websters a Battleship is "a warship of the largest and most heavily armed and armored class".

The Enterprises usually fit this description; they are usually shown as the largest of their time, and usually depicted as having the heaviest weaponry and shielding.

So in the TNG era, the Galaxy class are the battleships of Starfleet.

Well then why not in todays navy the Aircraft Carrier or the Aegis Cruiser not considered Battleships being they fit this description to?

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:47 pm

They don't actually. Consider that the description breaks into three parts :

Largest.
Most heavily armed.
Most heavily armoured.

Now we don't really armour ships much these days, so that part is rather moot. But if we take a battleship to be the largest and most heavily armed, then the ships you mention do not fit that description.

Nimitz class carriers are the largest warships afloat (depending on how you measure it); but their armament consists of a few short range missile launchers and point defence cannon.

Ticonderoga class cruisers are, perhaps, the most heavily armed ships afloat (in the US Navy anyway), but they are certainly not the largest.

As it happens there is a ship today that comes very close to being classed as a battleship - the Russian Kirov class cruisers. These are amongst the largest ships in the Russian Navy, and are amongst the most comprehensively armed vessels in the world. You could consider them as battleships... but they are not heavily armoured of course. Some class them as battlecruisers, since a battlecruiser is usually considered to be a ship that is of approximately equal size and armament to a battleship, but which sacrifices armour for greater speed.

All of the above is complicated by the fact the very definition of ship types change over time with evolving technology. Really no ship is going to be considered a battleship today, because the definition of those ships is really tied into the era when bigger ships meant bigger guns with more range and hitting power. In the missile age once you get over 3000 tons or so, you can carry the most powerful weapons in service; larger size only allows more weapons, or different types of weapons in one hull, or adds in other caapbilities. But the Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles that were on the Iowa class battleships in the 90s were no different that the ones on the Ticonderoga class cruisers or the Arleigh Burke destroyers. So the battleship is really an obsolete type of ship.

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:13 pm

Ok I go along with what your saying and pretty much agree.

See being it was never stated in any of the Star Trek series what some of the ship were classified. In another forum some people are stating that just about every starship in Starfleet are battleships.

I kind find that unlikely being that Starfleet uses there ships mostly for exploration, deplomatic, peacefull missions and then defensive missions are secondary. Due to this I kind of find it unlikey that the Federation would be waving a peace flag on a Battleship. ( Kind of like sticking a gun at someone telling them do it or I will blow your head off.) So at most ships like the Galaxy, Ambassador, Nebula, Excelcior, Constitution and so on were at least a Explorer/Heavy Cruiser.

The closest ships I think that come to a Battleship/warship is the Defiant and the Sovereign being there were built to help defend/defeat the borg.

So what does everyone think?

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:33 am

I think you'll find everyone's answers if you look in the design forum and just browse around various threads. The general feeling here (the way I have come to interpret it, anyone feel free to dispute) is that Starfleet really doesn't want anything specifically named battleships, warships, attack ship, etc. due the whole mission of peace and exploration. That being said, the designs of the bigger ships clearly indicate the capability of being a well armored/armed ship that can hold its own in a fight.

Monroe · Post by **Monroe** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 5:29 am

I hope they change that in future Star Treks. I love that part about sci-fi. Seeing massive fleets go head to head.

Post by **Teaos** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:42 am

I don't want that to happen. While it is cool on occasion Star trek isnt like that. There are other scifi shows out there for stuff like that Star trek is different.

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:07 pm

Bryan Moore wrote:I think you'll find everyone's answers if you look in the design forum and just browse around various threads. The general feeling here (the way I have come to interpret it, anyone feel free to dispute) is that Starfleet really doesn't want anything specifically named battleships, warships, attack ship, etc. due the whole mission of peace and exploration. That being said, the designs of the bigger ships clearly indicate the capability of being a well armored/armed ship that can hold its own in a fight.

Well one reason I am asking is that from another forum considers the Galaxy, Ambassador, Excellcior, Nebula, Constitution, as Battleships and or the word Explorer is a sercret name/code for Battleship which I believe is entirerly wrong. The reason I say this is that I find it hard that a ship that has been refered to as a Luxary Liner "Tin Man" and is used mainly for Exploration, Diplomatic, & then Defensive purposes could no way or form be a Battleship! It would be like Exploring new worlds and Races and having a gun pointed at them if it was a Battleship. Also Starfleet & the Federation was not a militaristic organization unlike the other races, meaning that Starfleet built ship for the main purpose to explore end that anything that was militaristic was secondary. To where the Klingons and other races it was the other way around meaning they built ships for the main purpose to be warships and that exploration was secondary.

Also as you stated designs now for ships are getting bigger and bigger and there defenses are stronger. But over time I would expect that from a technolgical advanced race and to also be able to keep up with other races type of ships so you could be able to at least defend yourself.

Anyway just trying to figure out if I am wrong on my views in the other forum and that maybe I should concede on what ship in starfleet that are battleships.

Blackstar the Chakat · Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:35 pm

Graham is right about the fact that no true battleship is left. The last officially designated battleship in service was the USS Wisconsin BB-64. That was decommisioned September 1991 after the Gulf War and was striken from the Naval Vessel Roster March 17, 2006.

Anyway, while the Galaxy-class is big it doesn't seem that tough. They seem to be used for diplomacy then for other things, and giving it enough fire power to make the average terrorist or pirate think twice is logical. I think the Sovereigns are battleships, but the Defiant would never be considered a battleship. It's a warship, and I think I would designate it a Frigate(escort ship).

And while huge battle scenes are cool, war shouldn't dominate Star Trek.

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:49 pm

Some people believe that if a ship like the Galaxy is able to match up against another ship or is able to defeat another ship that is considered a battleship. Then that would mean that the Galaxy is or is considered a battleship.

Like one arguement is that the Galaxy is a match or is equal to a Romulan D'Deridex which some people say is a Battleship. Due to this the Galaxy is or becomes a Battleship? I say no, but I have been told that I am wrong about that.

Moose · Post by **Moose** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 6:12 pm

I wouldn't say that any Starfleet ship could truly be considered a battleship... except possibly for the Galaxies rushed out purely for combat reasons during the Dominion War.... this is simply because a battleship isn't really that versatile... ship-to-ship combat is its sole reason to exist... whereas all Starfleet ships have a huge degree of versatility...

robjkay · Post by **robjkay** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 7:39 pm

Moose wrote:I wouldn't say that any Starfleet ship could truly be considered a battleship... except possibly for the Galaxies rushed out purely for combat reasons during the Dominion War.... this is simply because a battleship isn't really that versatile... ship-to-ship combat is its sole reason to exist... whereas all Starfleet ships have a huge degree of versatility...

Agreed, but even with the those Galaxies that were rushed out during the Dominion War, I mean how much more of a warship was it compared to the original design? One way to see it is maybe they were not completly finished being built, leaving many parts of the ship empty or incomplete to where there no science labs, 5 star bedrooms, no gyms and so on... Just a big empty incomplete ship that just has weapons, engines, sheilding. It almost seems like a waste!