Star Trek Vs Modern Earth

Reliant121 · Post by **Reliant121** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:27 am

The problem with the Defiant, as you all know, is they simply (following earlier set canon anyway) can't produce enough power with that pissy little warp core.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:25 am

I think the Defiant would be great as a "weapons only" small ship, or heavy fighter, meant to be deployed in large numbers in battle situations or against the Borg.

I think what happened was the writers got a little carried away with the popularity of a "Starfleet warship", and basically wrote it in to be a god ship after the first few appearances. In the Defiant's first appearance, "The Search", it is most certainly impressive for its size but is by no means invincible. Watching the course of the show afterwards, the ship just became larger than life, taking on huge enemies with more firepower and winning, and never losing because even once shields went down it had a magical coat of damage-me-not armor. The original concept worked but what we wound up with when the show was said and done, a ship the size of a Miranda (or smaller?) with firepower seemingly equivalent to the very heaviest ships was very much out of proportion with everything we knew about the ship, from its size to its warp core to how big the actual weapon emplacements were.

What would have been "more realistic" is if the Defiant had been given to Sisko to use, but it was just a "prototype testbed", and then what should have happened a season or so later would be trading it in for a much larger, more stable, more proportionately powered ship which had "smoothed out" the design problems and made more sense. Even if the thing was still operable by 50 or so crewmen, the extra size of the ship should have been power generation.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:38 pm

The only problem I see is the performance against the Keldons.
Against the Bugs BOP have shown to have similar kind of firepower.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:20 pm

Well, the Defiant can fire two quantum torpedos at the same time. So if you had a fleet of 50 Defiants, you could fire 100 quantum torpedos at once. I don't even think the Borg could handle that.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Sun May 18, 2008 8:30 pm

stitch626 wrote:Well, the Defiant can fire two quantum torpedos at the same time. So if you had a fleet of 50 Defiants, you could fire 100 quantum torpedos at once. I don't even think the Borg could handle that.

Seriously. Ouch.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:17 pm

stitch626 wrote:Well, the Defiant can fire two quantum torpedos at the same time. So if you had a fleet of 50 Defiants, you could fire 100 quantum torpedos at once. I don't even think the Borg could handle that.

In fairness we have only ever seen quantums used against unshielded Borg vessels or unshielded points on Borg vessels. There's not any particular evidence what they would do vs. a fully powered Borg cube. Quantums didn't exactly rip the Scimitar in half.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Sun May 18, 2008 9:18 pm

True, but 100 of them hitting at once. And they could keep firing too.

Post by **Teaos** » Mon May 19, 2008 1:15 am

What I would love to know is the power of those cannons. I see no reason why they should be more powerful than a constant beam if they both have the same power put into them.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Mon May 19, 2008 2:50 am

Teaos wrote:What I would love to know is the power of those cannons. I see no reason why they should be more powerful than a constant beam if they both have the same power put into them.

One of the very many unexplained things about the Defiant. I don't even think the writers/designers had a clear idea.... it was just "oooh, we'll make it fire really fast and people will know that means it's STRONG!"

Post by **Mikey** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:00 am

Teaos wrote:What I would love to know is the power of those cannons. I see no reason why they should be more powerful than a constant beam if they both have the same power put into them.

I think the idea is that more power is being applied to the target by the pulse phaser cannon for the same amount of energy as an equivalent phaser beam. In other words, if you have a phaser beam utilizing "x" amount of energy and a pulse phaser cannon also utilizing "x" energy, then the actual power involved will be higher for the pulse phaser because the energy is applied to the target of a shorter period of time.

Duskofdead · Post by **Duskofdead** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:03 am

Mikey wrote:
Teaos wrote:What I would love to know is the power of those cannons. I see no reason why they should be more powerful than a constant beam if they both have the same power put into them.
I think the idea is that more power is being applied to the target by the pulse phaser cannon for the same amount of energy as an equivalent phaser beam. In other words, if you have a phaser beam utilizing "x" amount of energy and a pulse phaser cannon also utilizing "x" energy, then the actual power involved will be higher for the pulse phaser because the energy is applied to the target of a shorter period of time.

That's my impression as well, I think we're "supposed to think" that the Defiant's phasers are applying weapon energy in a shorter period of time, in quick bursts, as opposed to steadily over a slower period of time as with beams. Of course it still doesn't make a whole lot of sense because if a ship as small as the Defiant can manage the power flow, certainly a larger and more powerful starship could too (just really fast, more concentrated beams or something? Or several beams simultaneously?) But I guess we're just supposed to not question it too closely

Post by **Teaos** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:05 am

Maybe but the cons of it having shit aim and it can't hold fire as well would seem to counter it.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon May 19, 2008 3:07 am

I think the further idea was that specialized equipment and greater power input were involved.