A matter of gramatical correctness

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:13 am

Well the practical reason is it makes it stand out more and gives it more authority in a sentence.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:29 am

All I'm pointing out is that we don't capitalise the names of species (eg, dog, dolphin, monkey, etc). It's correct that certain, for lack of a better word, breeds within a species should be capitalised (eg, Rotweiler, Alsation, Dobberman, etc), so Romulan should be capitalised, as it is a sub-species of the vulcan species (no capital). So when speaking of the species itself there shouldn't really be a capital. Eg, "klingons are stronger than humans". That refers to the species, not a specfic breed, or a person from a certain nation. Correct?

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:34 am

Rochey wrote:All I'm pointing out is that we don't capitalise the names of species (eg, dog, dolphin, monkey, etc). It's correct that certain, for lack of a better word, breeds within a species should be capitalised (eg, Rotweiler, Alsation, Dobberman, etc), so Romulan should be capitalised, as it is a sub-species of the vulcan species (no capital). So when speaking of the species itself there shouldn't really be a capital. Eg, "klingons are stronger than humans". That refers to the species, not a specfic breed, or a person from a certain nation. Correct?

Actually, Rochey, we capitalize words like "Rottweiler," "Alsatian," etc., because they are named for proper nouns - usually place names. By that convention, Romulan should be capped (for the planet Romulus) but klingon should not. I tend to still think the idea is that there is now more than one sentient species, so we cap all the names as a matter of policy.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:40 am

Rochey wrote:All I'm pointing out is that we don't capitalise the names of species (eg, dog, dolphin, monkey, etc). It's correct that certain, for lack of a better word, breeds within a species should be capitalised (eg, Rotweiler, Alsation, Dobberman, etc), so Romulan should be capitalised, as it is a sub-species of the vulcan species (no capital). So when speaking of the species itself there shouldn't really be a capital. Eg, "klingons are stronger than humans". That refers to the species, not a specfic breed, or a person from a certain nation. Correct?

True, but then you get examples such as "could the Klingons beat the Federation?", where you're refering to the political entity of the Klingon Empire, and so should be capitalised.

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:52 am

Maybe the Federation language of the future is based partly on German, and they started to just randomly capitalize all nouns?

Remember, as JFK once said in a famous bit of German: "I am a jelly doughnut."

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:03 pm

I tend to still think the idea is that there is now more than one sentient species, so we cap all the names as a matter of policy.

That could explain it. It would make them seem more important, and differentiate sapient species from others.

Remember, as JFK once said in a famous bit of German: "I am a jelly doughnut."

Eh?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:11 pm

Rochey wrote:
Remember, as JFK once said in a famous bit of German: "I am a jelly doughnut."
Eh?

"Ich bin ein Berliner", I believe. However for Berlin, though not for any other city, that's correct grammar.

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:12 pm

While speaking in Berlin, John F. Kennedy decided to make a point of solidarity by saying a phrase in German - Ich bin Berliner, "I am a Berliner." What he said instead was Ich bin ein Berliner. Use of the article ein denotes that the noun that follows is a common, rather than proper, noun - and the common-noun definition of berliner is "jelly doughnut." So, JFK stood at the Berlin Wall and in a show of camaraderie with Germany, said, "I am a jelly doughnut."

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:22 pm

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:30 pm

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:38 pm

Amusing as it may be, the "jelly doughnut" myth is just that - a myth. While most German cities inhabitants use the "ich bin..." formation, in Berlin "ich bin ein Berliner" is the correct grammar. Why that is I don't know - you'd have to ask a German.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:44 pm

Aw, damn.

stitch626 · Post by **stitch626** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:35 pm

About species, dog is not a species, it is a common term used to describe those of the Canus genus (note capitalization). Scientifically, you capitalize the genus and species. also, human is a common term, Homo Sapien (or Terran, which is supposed to be capitalized) is the species. Therefore, it is my position that Klingon, Romulan... are species names and thus, are correct to be capitalized.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:59 pm

Hmm, good thinking.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:00 pm

stitch626 wrote:About species, dog is not a species, it is a common term used to describe those of the Canus genus (note capitalization). Scientifically, you capitalize the genus and species. also, human is a common term, Homo Sapien (or Terran, which is supposed to be capitalized) is the species. Therefore, it is my position that Klingon, Romulan... are species names and thus, are correct to be capitalized.

If we want to be anal, practically all the races in Trek are the same species, as they can breed together. Try breeding a dog&cat and see how far that goes.