Are Borg Dead?

[Teaos]

This kind of came up in another thread but I think it deserves its own since I think its an interesting point.

Are Borg dead?

If you or I got assimilated would we be "dead"?

For all intents and purposes who we were stops existing once we become part of the hive mind.

But as we saw with seven you can be brought back. Does this mean you were never dead or you have been brough back?

[Mikey]

I think, with the example of Seven still retaining memories (and therefore, probably personality traits) of Annika Hansen, it seems more likely that your consciousness is suppressed rather than eliminated. Remember, Picard had memories of his Borg existence even when he was made human again.

[Teaos]

So it's like going into Hibernation?

The Borg never wipes out memories and considering my main point in the "does the transporter kill you?" thread was its you memories that makes you who you are, that would mean you live for as long as they last.

[Reliant121]

I think they are technically still alive because they cant function without the biological, and therefore, living part of the body.

[Aaron]

I think, with the example of Seven still retaining memories (and therefore, probably personality traits) of Annika Hansen, it seems more likely that your consciousness is suppressed rather than eliminated. Remember, Picard had memories of his Borg existence even when he was made human again.

There was also the Borg dreamland (I forget the episode) where their actual personalities interacted with other Borg.

I look at them as meat puppets or a human being cotrolled by a psyker in WH40K, their personalities are present but suppressed by the Borg collective.

[Teaos]

On a slightly related note are Borg Immortal?

We see Sevens perants once and they llok the same as when they were assimilated 20 years ago. Also I doubt the Borg could keep that many drones running if they had to replace them every 60 years.

Could you rip someone away from the collective who had been there for 500 years?

[Captain Seafort]

On a slightly related note are Borg Immortal?

I don't see how they could be - they might be able to slow down the aging process, but given that we've never had any indication that immortality is possible in Trek, I very much doubt the Borg could pull it off.

[Reliant121]

And, logistically speaking, the borg have enough ships and drones to assimilate replacements for the ones that die every...say 100 years.

[Mikey]

Reliant makes a good point, in that physically they require a living organic component. And in the transporter thread, it was my personal tehory that a "personality set" of reaction defined by experience, memory, innate tendency, etc., define continuation of personal identity - so yes, having those personalities be able to re-emerge to me presupposes the continuity of the individual.

Immortality? I doubt it, although I'm sure a drone's organic componenet would age much more slowly than "normal."

[Blackstar the Chakat]

It's really how you define life as to whether you're dead or immortal when you're a Borg.

Biologically the Borg are alive, but the memories which is often said to define who a person is are a different matter. There's also a matter of free will. You can have all sort of memories but it doesn't do squat if you don't have free will. Your personal memories still exist, but you also lack any control. Sort of like the Ga'uld from Stargate SG-1. The person servives but they're a prisoner in their own body. After too much time a person's free will could disappear forever if they're Borg for too long, I'd immagine.

[Reliant121]

Free will is the decider on SENTIENT life not life in general. Trees are alive and they dont have free will?

[Captain Picard's Hair]

Free will is the decider on SENTIENT life not life in general. Trees are alive and they dont have free will?

I think the idea of this thread is not whether one is alive in the biological sense, but in the personal sense. A brain dead person can be "alive," but he's about as useful as a slab of beef.

Seven did retain memories, but had the personality of a calculator in the beginning. She became "human" gradually, but clearly was affected by her experience as a drone. The person she would eventually become won't be the same person Annika Hansen would have been if not assimlated, and she likely would remain influenced by the Borg for the rest of her life. Certainly she didn't have human experiences for most of her life up to the point she was de-borgified, and she can never get those back.

Maybe we can say that a new person is formed from the memories of young Annika Hansen, but the person Annika would have become as a child left to develop naturally does not exist.

[kostmayer]

Can't remember if it was Q Who, or Best of Both Worlds - but didn't we see a Borg Nursery, and a baby aboard one of the Borg ships? Maybe they don't rely solely on assimilating adults as a way or replenishing their drones.

Picards post punch up talk with his brother, describing his experience with the Borg, seems to indicate a low level of consiousness. He not only remembered everything, there was also enough of himself left to resist, albeit in vain (or futilely ), and also to tell Data how to send the Borg into Hibernation.

[Reliant121]

I think they were simply assimilated as children. Think about the episode "Collective" [Voy].

[Blackstar the Chakat]

The person she would eventually become won't be the same person Annika Hansen would have been if not assimlated, and she likely would remain influenced by the Borg for the rest of her life

Isn't that how everyone is though? Are you the exact same person you were even just 5 years ago? So Annika Hansen went through a tramatic experiance, so do a lot of other people. She might be different in terms of personality but she wasn't really dead.

Maybe we can say that a new person is formed from the memories of young Annika Hansen, but the person Annika would have become as a child left to develop naturally does not exist.

Never did. It might be fun to speculate but she is what was Annika Hanson. You can speculate what might have happened if you didn't get injured, didn't get divorce, or didn't have kids, which is basically what happened here. More traumatic then average maybe but I wouldn't say she died anymore then the person I was 10 years ago died.