Boneheaded Captain moves.

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:54 pm

If a ship comes near them its not avtomaticly attacked. The Raven, the shutle that Voyeger used as a decoy, countless species that live near Borg space.

They dont attack something that isnt a threat or isnt interesting. If you are systimatically un Borgifying drones you are a considerable threat.

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:05 pm

No we know that Starfleet had systems to fight them. Who knows how advanced the Borg are then. It could still be a very fine balance of power.

Hardly becuse Borg envolve through assimilation not inovation.

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:11 pm

And what happens if they manage to get their hands on even one ship with this tech?

Or assimilates some Klingons who have found a counter to it?

mlsnoopy · Post by **mlsnoopy** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:33 pm

They dont attack something that isnt a threat or isnt interesting. If you are systimatically un Borgifying drones you are a considerable threat.

We are talking alien ships, who dont have technobable defensive system, wich Borg can't penetrate.

And those ideals flew out the window pretty fast during the Dominion War

You mean section 31, wich is not part of the federation goverment.

Baku incident

Wich would be stoped imidietly if the federation concile would be informed.

with the Maquis colonies

Maquis were braking the law.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:39 pm

mlsnoopy wrote: You mean section 31, wich is not part of the federation goverment.

It is an agency of the government.

Wich would be stoped imidietly if the federation concile would be informed.

They had the approval of the council.

Maquis were braking the law.

No they weren't, they had left the Federation and where no longer subject to it's laws. The Federation chose to force their laws on them, which Sisko then broke by poisoning the enviroment of two planets in an effort to drive Eddington out of hiding.

Edit: do you have spellcheck on your browser? Because reading your posts is incredibly frustrating. If you don't than type it up in Word and cross post it.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:45 pm

Just to prevent any future BS here is the actual dialogue from INS:

PICARD
... or understand that they were
participating in the outright
theft of a world.
(beat)
I won't let you move them,
Admiral. I'll go to the
Federation Council...

DOUGHERTY
I'm acting on orders form the
Federation Council.

PICARD
(reacts, beat)
How can there be an order to
abandon the Prime Directive...?

DOUGHERTY
The Prime Directive doesn't
apply. These people are not
indigenous to this world. They
were never meant to be immortal.
We'll simply be restoring their
natural evolution.

Blackstar the Chakat · Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:48 pm

It is an agency of the government

A rouge agency who doesn't take orders from anyone. Hardly a part of the government.

They had the approval of the council

Section 31 was formed over 200 years yearlier and hasn't answered to anyone since then.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:50 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
Section 31 was formed over 200 years yearlier and hasn't answered to anyone since then.

The Baku operation, dude.

Post by **Teaos** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:53 pm

The prime directive and the rest of their rules are what they try to live up to. Reality sometimes gets in the way of that.

Blackstar the Chakat · Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:54 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:
Section 31 was formed over 200 years yearlier and hasn't answered to anyone since then.
The Baku operation, dude.

That wasn't a Section 31 operation. Unless you have evidence.

Post by **Mikey** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:15 pm

Nobody said that the Baku incident was a Sec 31 operation. You're confusing two different lines of conversation. Snoop referred to the ideals which went out the window during the Dominion War - referring to Sec 31 - and THEN separately to the Baku incident; both of which Kendall answered independently of each other.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:18 pm

mlsnoopy wrote:Don't folow you. How is the total extermination of countless races not genocide/xenocide.

Because they're not exterminating countless races. They're eliminating the government they're fighting for. Let's say they kill all the Klingons in the Collective. The Klingon race still exists.

And in time you develope technology wich can be used to save countless species. That for me would be the prefered cours of actions.

Prove such technology is possible.

I'm not talking that the federation should now begine to start a massive diasimilation process but in time when they develop superior technology.

Prove they can do such things.
Prove the Federation will become superior to the Borg.

Or pop up a technobable defensive system, when you are beaming drones one by one from the ship and disasimilating them.

Prove such a defence is possible.
Prove they can beam drones away one by one and de-assimilate them within a reasonable timeframe.

We know that in 30 years the Borg shouldn't be a threat anymore.

No, we know that in 30 years the UFP has technology that can kill 'modern' Borg. The Borg of the future may well have similar technology, or defences to counter these weapons.

I belive that the science part would be delighted at the idea.

What they want is irrelevant. The defence of the UFP is Starfleet's highest priority. Therefore any possible weapon that can take down the Borg should be used.

We are talking alien ships, who dont have technobable defensive system, wich Borg can't penetrate.

Prove that such defences are possible.

You mean section 31, wich is not part of the federation goverment.

Section 31 is part of the government, as evidenced by the fact that they are funded by the UFP, use UFP personel for their tasks, and are given orders by high-ranking UFP officials.

Blackstar wrote:A rouge agency who doesn't take orders from anyone. Hardly a part of the government.

They take orders from the Federation council, as Kendall's quote showed. Therefore, they do take orders. They're no more rogue than the FBI or CIA are.

Aaron · Post by **Aaron** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 3:20 pm

ChakatBlackstar wrote:
That wasn't a Section 31 operation. Unless you have evidence.

FFS, I said the Baku operation had the approval of the Federation Council not that it was a Section 31 operation.

Blackstar the Chakat · Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:23 pm

Cpl Kendall wrote:
ChakatBlackstar wrote:
That wasn't a Section 31 operation. Unless you have evidence.
FFS, I said the Baku operation had the approval of the Federation Council not that it was a Section 31 operation.

Well, I said that Section 31 hasn't taken orders from the Federation council in 200 years, which you quoted and then said "The Baku operation, dude." so I think you can understand my confusion.

kostmayer · Post by **kostmayer** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:47 pm

Kirk - Not raising the damn shields!

Picard - Not destroying the Borg.

Janeway - Not boffing Q in Deathwish. Could have got the ship home there and then

Sisko - Warning the Cardassians about the Klingon Invasion, then rescuing the Council members. Warning the Cardassians I can understand, though it was ultimately futile and probably just resulted in more Cardassian deaths - I don't hold with the idea that the Klingons would have come after the Federation next if they did nothing.
Rescuing the council members got the station attacked and disrupted relations with the Klingons, with a high cost in lives.

Archer - Don't really remember the series well enough.