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Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:52 pm
by Mikey
I agree with Tyyr. Bears are dangerous, but bear hunters usually tip the scales with things like... firearms. People who hunt with revolvers are worse - you ever see what a Ruger Super Redhawk chambered for the .454 Casull can do to an animal? I'm not saying that bear hunters shouldn't use guns or bows, but don't call it "sporting" or "honorable." Those terms would apply to someone who hunted bear with a ka-bar (although they'd probably be applied posthumously.)

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:53 pm
by Tyyr
And the Predator doing it face to face rather than from ambush.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:55 pm
by Mikey
'Zactly. The pedator is no more or less honorable than a guy who shoots a cape buffalo with a .50-90, from a tree blind, while the animal has it's head in a watering hole.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:05 pm
by Aaron
Wasn't that whole "honourable" thing an invention of the books? There's very little to suggest in the films that they anything but hunters, IIRC it's flat out stated by Gary Busey in Pred 2.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:10 pm
by Tsukiyumi
The honor part, IMO, is from their practice of not killing unarmed opponents, and using an equivalent weapon to match what any acceptable quarry has.

EDIT: Here's a compilation clip; from 1:53 on in is Blain's demise. It's almost certainly the disc.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:34 am
by Lighthawk
Tsukiyumi wrote:The honor part, IMO, is from their practice of not killing unarmed opponents, and using an equivalent weapon to match what any acceptable quarry has.

EDIT: Here's a compilation clip; from 1:53 on in is Blain's demise. It's almost certainly the disc.


I wouldn't go that far, on the freeze frame, it's not very disc shaped. Looks more like a big ass knife. Keep in mind, the disc weapon was never shown clearly in the first movie at all, but in the 2nd.

And am I the only one who can't tell exactly where the knife/disc/whatever actually hit him? It passes in a blur, there's a spurt of blood that hits his shoulder, but nothing on him actually looks damaged. And it's weird how he just kind of stands there looking dazed. A man who "Ain't got time to bleed" standing around like he just got whacked on the head from a grazing wound?

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:57 am
by Tsukiyumi
Lighthawk wrote:And am I the only one who can't tell exactly where the knife/disc/whatever actually hit him?


If you look at the frame where he gets hit the first time, it looks like the first hit blew through his shoulder (from the blood on his shirt); the second one tore about a twelve by one inch hole through his chest (and the clearly visible projectile moves way slower than any of the plasma caster bolts in the film :wink: ).

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:05 am
by Vic
Mikey wrote:I agree with Tyyr. Bears are dangerous, but bear hunters usually tip the scales with things like... firearms. People who hunt with revolvers are worse - you ever see what a Ruger Super Redhawk chambered for the .454 Casull can do to an animal? I'm not saying that bear hunters shouldn't use guns or bows, but don't call it "sporting" or "honorable." Those terms would apply to someone who hunted bear with a ka-bar (although they'd probably be applied posthumously.)



Somebody going after a bear with a ka-bar is just plain stupid, or Dan'l Boone. In that case the bear has all of the advantages over the ka-bar wielding human. Bears have been turning gun wielding humans into blood puddles pretty much regularly, come to think of it so have Cape Buffalo.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:23 pm
by Tyyr
Honor isn't about doing the smart thing.

That said if a bear kills a hunter its almost always because the hunter found himself unexpectedly close to a bear. Same with a Cape Buffalo. A guy taking a shot at a Cape Buffalo 200 yards away isn't going to be run down and killed by the beast.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:54 pm
by Vic
If it is a one shot one kill scenario then you are right, that is sadly not the prevalent scenario given todays lackluster hunters. I applaud those who do their homework and know their prey, dangerous or otherwise and make a quick clean humane kill.

As with all dangerous game, big cats, bison, bear, etc., that first shot may be the last shot of your life. I could relate stories read about and heard about but that would just lengthen this post. I am sure that you have heard some or read about some yourself.

On topic I don't see the Preds. as honorable at all, hunting is not about honor, it is about death or survival. At its best it is about feeding ones family or villiage, at worst it is about bragging rights and trophies. Oh yeah, and guess what it is for the Preds?

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:11 pm
by Tyyr
If you're hunting dangerous game at a range where it can get to you and kill you between the first shot and the second then you are a complete fucking idiot.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:22 pm
by Vic
Ya don't allways have the luxury of a three hundred yard shot, alot of Cape Buff hunting is less than half of that. The same with leopard, The majority of brown bear might allow for that though. Also remember that you have to be close enough to accuratly place the shot and still have enough energy left in the projectile to do enough damage. We are not talking about ground hogs at 400 yards here, you want the maximum amount of damage that can be caused.

P.S. There are alot of f***g idiots out there, and they do tend to get weeded out of the gene pool in this kind of endeavour.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:32 pm
by Tyyr
Still, even at 100 yards there is no animal on earth that can close the distance between itself and a hunter before he can get a second shot off. Much less when the animal is wounded. That's the whole damn reason things like double rifles exist. Even a bolt action should be able to get off a second shot or more between wounding the animal and it being able to close. As far as close enough to retain the energy to kill, well that's why you don't go hunting buffalo with a .22. A skilled hunter with the appropriate weapon is not in any real danger from an animal he's hunting. They have to run into a dangerous animal unexpectedly to really be in any danger aside from a freak accident.

When you read about someone being killed by these animals while on a hunt most of the time its going to be because it was an unexpected encounter or the person was just an idiot. Competent hunters aren't killed by their prey with any kind of regularity.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:25 pm
by stitch626
I love how we are arguing over the Pred's honourableness. It doesn't matter what we think. They are honourable by their own definition.

Re: If Predators are so honorable....

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:54 pm
by Vic
Maybe I should put it this way, without his tools man is dead meat, period. Yes anything up to say black bear maybe a spear would be sporting (spear hunting evidently experiencing a resurgence), for anything larger .600 Nitro Express IS sporting. Given that without it.......you guessed it, you are ......dead meat.