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Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:23 am
by Lt. Staplic
A thought occurred to me the other day when I was watching "Cure", the episode where SG1 goes to Pangara where they have developed the miracle drug Tretonin, and find out later it's made using gua'uld symbiotes bred from the Tok'ra Queen Egeria. I saw this shortly after seeing "Abyss", the episode where the Tok'ra Canan, after blending with Jack to prevent his death, is compelled to return to Ba'al's palace to rescue the slave he had met there.

Essentially my thought was this: While the Gua'uld don't blend with their hosts and simply suppress the hosts personality/identity/conciousness, the Tok'ra do which leads to both the host and symbiote changing as people (similar to the blending that occurs for Trill I think). We also know that young gua'uld are unable to completely suppress the hosts identity (Nightwalkers). So what if Egeria, the queen that spawned the Tok'ra was too young/immature to take a host when she did. She's supposidly one of the older Gua'uld and could have been around since before the Jaffa incubation. So what if the Tok'ra actually spawned because instead of being able to suppress the host, the host and symbiote blended fundamentally altering Egeria's Ideology.

What do you think?

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:49 am
by Captain Seafort
I don't think so, mainly because this:

Lt. Staplic wrote:While the Gua'uld don't blend with their hosts and simply suppress the hosts personality/identity/conciousness, the Tok'ra do which leads to both the host and symbiote changing as people


is wrong. While the Tok'ra use the term "blending", the host and symbiote appear to retain distinct and largely unaltered personalities. Compare Jacob before and after blending with Selmak - he's still the same person, he just knows a bit more.

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:55 pm
by Lt. Staplic
Genderally yes I agree he's the same person, and I'm not thinking there is some radical alteration, especially with the Tok'ra. But we have seen how the blending can cause behaviors to change. In "Abyss" Jack is blended with Canan and after that they leave to return for a slave that Canan had developed feelings for because Jacks sense of honor and obligation to never leave a man behind was impressed upon the symbiote.

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:59 pm
by Deepcrush
Getting a soldier to follow you to battle, even if its a one way trip, to avoid the shame of leaving someone behind isn't the Tok'ra changing that person. Its the Tok'ra asking for help and the soldier agreeing to do it.

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:40 pm
by Lt. Staplic
Deepcrush wrote:Getting a soldier to follow you to battle, even if its a one way trip, to avoid the shame of leaving someone behind isn't the Tok'ra changing that person. Its the Tok'ra asking for help and the soldier agreeing to do it.


Except that Jack didn't agree to it. We also have the direct line from Sam that after the blending the Tokra Canan would have been altered into holding itself responsible to the same standards as it's new host and would have judged itself by the new hosts moral standards, and thats why he went back for her.

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:43 pm
by Deepcrush
Your own statement declares that mutual feelings between Jack and Canan motivated them to return. Either Jack agreed to it or was forced to it.

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:49 pm
by Sonic Glitch
Deepcrush wrote:Your own statement declares that mutual feelings between Jack and Canan motivated them to return. Either Jack agreed to it or was forced to it.

I think it was more Jacks feelings motivated Canan to return, Canan than hijacked Jacks body to do it

Re: Origin of the Tok'ra

PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:00 pm
by Deepcrush
So then Jack didn't blend, he was forced. The Tok'ra just changed its mind.