Earth Ships

Earth Ships

Postby McAvoy » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:16 am

Something that bothered me for a while. Is the Protmetheus and Daedalus class Earth ships. While I do enjoy the fact that these ships are no larger than a Nimitz class carrier and there are few of them. It's how and where they are built.

However, the US's aircraft carriers cost billions of dollars and takes years to be built. That's a ship that floats on water and realistically simple in comparison to a starship. While we know that much of technology comes from Asgard and backwards engineered from those acquired from the Stargate. But realistically for such a top secret project, it should take much longer to build such a ship. it took two years and several billion dollars to build the Prometheus. While the dollar figure is somewhat realistic, the two years isn't. I would believe this figure if we were talking about building a aircraft carrier under war time. But not for Earth's first starship.

The Daedalus class seems to be about the same also. Taking about two or so years to be built, that they're being built in numbers. For example, the Odyssey was probably built right around the same time as the Deadalus. In time to replace the Prometheus.

We know of six ships. It seems to me that they are built in pairs. Give or take. But where are they built? Having the Prometheus built underground is fine and all if you can keep it under wraps but having multiple ships rising from the ground like that, well is begging to be caught.

I do liked how they were originally inferior to all the powers. I think the Asgard technology in the Unending kind of made them too powerful. The Asgard ship in Camelot (which should be a better ship to a Daedalus class because they are built with the technology in mind) was no match for the Ori. That ship should have at least destroyed even one Ori ship. But I guess a Asgard upgraded Daedalus class ship is superior. Perhaps the bAsgard beam tehcnology is a new technology designed to fight against the Ori. That makes sense since the beam technology was never seen before. Asgard energy weapons look like energy bolts.

So we got:

USS Prometheus: SG-1 S06E11 "Prometheus" 2002
USS Daedalus: SGA S02E01 "The Siege Part 3" 2005
USS Odessey: SG-1 S09E16 "Off the Grid" 2006
RFS Korolev: SG-1 S09E19 "Crusade" 2006
USS Apollo: SGA S03E20 "First Strike" 2007
Sun Tzu: SGA S05E19 "Enemy at the Gate" 2009
USS George Hammond First mentioned in Enemy at the Gate as being under contruction. Showed up in the season premier in Universe. Both 2009.

Thoughts?
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:25 am

The Prometheus was hand built but the others came after we gained the Asgard beaming technology and gained the support of Russia, China and England. Its likely that all those later gains allowed the building of the following ships.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby McAvoy » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:45 am

Actually it was planned to build seven more Prometheus's. I guess the gain of additional technology and the failure of the original hyperdrive forced them to change the design.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Aug 07, 2010 3:59 am

McAvoy wrote:Actually it was planned to build seven more Prometheus's. I guess the gain of additional technology and the failure of the original hyperdrive forced them to change the design.


Maybe not forced them to change but allowed them to upgrade to a new and improved design.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby McAvoy » Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:41 pm

I think so too. I believe it was when the Asgard starting installing their technology into the Prometheus. Prior to that it was backwards engineered technology they collected over the years.

That and I read somewhere a few people theorized that the Asgard technology isn't really being used to their full power due to limitations in Earth design. The fact a ZPM can boost hyperdrive and shields for example. Asgard have shown to travel between galaxies in a matter of hours.

Alos have to wonder if the Asgard trained personnel on how to maintain their technologies as well or did they leave a manual? The new Daedalus class ships built after the extinction of the Asgards would have to have the humans building the Asgard technology themselves.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Deepcrush » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:15 pm

McAvoy wrote:I think so too. I believe it was when the Asgard starting installing their technology into the Prometheus. Prior to that it was backwards engineered technology they collected over the years.


Which would be a major issue as most of the tech they've picked up wouldn't be designed to work with other random tech. The Asgard gave them a crystal clear starting point which the SGC never had before.

McAvoy wrote:That and I read somewhere a few people theorized that the Asgard technology isn't really being used to their full power due to limitations in Earth design.


Not by humans at least, the Asgard up until their end never allowed humans full access to their systems and often assigned an Asgard to control said systems.

McAvoy wrote:The fact a ZPM can boost hyperdrive and shields for example. Asgard have shown to travel between galaxies in a matter of hours.


The Asgard seemed to be able to make their own ZPM styled generators which would be a serious boost to the SGC's plans.

McAvoy wrote:Alos have to wonder if the Asgard trained personnel on how to maintain their technologies as well or did they leave a manual? The new Daedalus class ships built after the extinction of the Asgards would have to have the humans building the Asgard technology themselves.


I don't think so since the Asgard used systems meant to do the work for them. Most Asgard ships, even warships, only had a few personnel onboard. Their auto-controls took care of most problems for them. In this the humans still don't have to really worry about building Asgard tech, just replicating it.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Reliant121 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:57 am

Given humanities annoying tendency toward infectious curiosity, It wouldn't take long for scientists to start picking away at the Asgard technology.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Deepcrush » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:04 pm

Reliant121 wrote:Given humanities annoying tendency toward infectious curiosity, It wouldn't take long for scientists to start picking away at the Asgard technology.


Of course not, but then again the Asgard gave them that big data core to deal with just that.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby McAvoy » Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:22 pm

Deepcrush wrote:
McAvoy wrote:I think so too. I believe it was when the Asgard starting installing their technology into the Prometheus. Prior to that it was backwards engineered technology they collected over the years.


Which would be a major issue as most of the tech they've picked up wouldn't be designed to work with other random tech. The Asgard gave them a crystal clear starting point which the SGC never had before.

McAvoy wrote:That and I read somewhere a few people theorized that the Asgard technology isn't really being used to their full power due to limitations in Earth design.


Not by humans at least, the Asgard up until their end never allowed humans full access to their systems and often assigned an Asgard to control said systems.

McAvoy wrote:The fact a ZPM can boost hyperdrive and shields for example. Asgard have shown to travel between galaxies in a matter of hours.


The Asgard seemed to be able to make their own ZPM styled generators which would be a serious boost to the SGC's plans.

McAvoy wrote:Alos have to wonder if the Asgard trained personnel on how to maintain their technologies as well or did they leave a manual? The new Daedalus class ships built after the extinction of the Asgards would have to have the humans building the Asgard technology themselves.


I don't think so since the Asgard used systems meant to do the work for them. Most Asgard ships, even warships, only had a few personnel onboard. Their auto-controls took care of most problems for them. In this the humans still don't have to really worry about building Asgard tech, just replicating it.


Generally I agree. The biggest problem is that if they just copy Asgard technology it still leaves the question if they fully understand it to fix it if something goes wrong. Obviously super geniuses like Carter and McKay can handle that but what about Airman John Doe?
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:57 am

McAvoy wrote:Generally I agree. The biggest problem is that if they just copy Asgard technology it still leaves the question if they fully understand it to fix it if something goes wrong. Obviously super geniuses like Carter and McKay can handle that but what about Airman John Doe?


If the Human's can't fix it, then they can just let the Asgard auto-systems do it for them.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby AlexMcpherson79 » Fri Aug 23, 2019 3:09 pm

This is a MASSIVE necro, but relevant.

apparently, the Daedalus class ships are more like 650 metres in length.

theres a video on Trekyards where the CG model used for the show is matched to scale against the constitution and sovereign Enterprises. And it kind of makes sense because the hanger bays on the Daedalus are supposed to be wide enough for the F-302's to be parked along both sides of the hanger and leave a large enough gap for 302s that are being launched. And there's supposed to be a minimum of 8 to each hanger, so two rows along the sides of 4 - and F-302's are pretty damn wide, but the hanger doesnt take the full length of the pod, as a good third of the length is used by the secondary/tertiary sublight engines.

The thinking was apparently, each hanger is an 'aircraft carrier' with the core of the ship being the battleship/submarine, with a lot of internal space of the core given over to the engines at the back, and weapons and cargo amidships, etc etc, with the limitation being Oxygen (life support) as to why the crew count is so low for the daedalus' size of 650 metres, based on the models' design size.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby McAvoy » Sat Aug 24, 2019 3:54 pm

AlexMcpherson79 wrote:This is a MASSIVE necro, but relevant.

apparently, the Daedalus class ships are more like 650 metres in length.

theres a video on Trekyards where the CG model used for the show is matched to scale against the constitution and sovereign Enterprises. And it kind of makes sense because the hanger bays on the Daedalus are supposed to be wide enough for the F-302's to be parked along both sides of the hanger and leave a large enough gap for 302s that are being launched. And there's supposed to be a minimum of 8 to each hanger, so two rows along the sides of 4 - and F-302's are pretty damn wide, but the hanger doesnt take the full length of the pod, as a good third of the length is used by the secondary/tertiary sublight engines.

The thinking was apparently, each hanger is an 'aircraft carrier' with the core of the ship being the battleship/submarine, with a lot of internal space of the core given over to the engines at the back, and weapons and cargo amidships, etc etc, with the limitation being Oxygen (life support) as to why the crew count is so low for the daedalus' size of 650 metres, based on the models' design size.


I did make a post about that. Specifically the Prometheus being in the 400 meter range. Only because of the size of the 302 and also a screenshots of the Prometheus in the episode of Prometheus as well. That u shaped structure built around the upper part has windows and you can go from that.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:40 pm

There are a number of things about the Stargate universe that don't make much sense, and this is certainly one of them. Even if you ignore the big ships being spaceships/starships, just building a naval ship of that size would be staggeringly expensive and take a vast amount of time. Look at the Ford class carrier - it's been nearly fifteen years since construction started and the ship still isn't operational. But the same industrial base produced a ship that's like three or four times that size, incorporating several utterly revolutionary technologies, in the space of what, five years? Hell, just making the missiles that can fly in space would probably take over a decade.

The other issue for me is keeping it all secret. Having an underground Stargate somewhere, and a dozen or so squad-sized teams to go through it... yeah, I can see that being kept secret. Though even that would be hard. But these people built an interstellar - intergalactic! - fleet of warships and fought at least three different major interstellar wars. There must be tens of thousands of people involved in the various projects, lately spanning several different governments, and it's all completely secret. It's utterly absurd.

And jesus, can you even imagine the shitstorm that's going to happen when it comes out? I don't think the writers really grasp it. It would probably provoke a total loss of confidence, not just in the government of the day, but in the entire system of government. I kept waiting for some version of Stargate to go there, but they never did. And they longer they leave it, the bigger the ensuing shitstorm would be.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby McAvoy » Wed Aug 28, 2019 12:52 am

I think there was a plan either in Atlantis or Universe where the Stargate Program was going to be revealed.

Its one of those things that I liked about the Stargate series was the politics. It was a light hearted one but it was still there that at least made it feel a bit more real to me.

But yeah guaranteed it would have been glossed over.

Spending probably hundreds of billions of dollars probably would be a minor thing compared to the reveal how many times Earth was in extreme danger due to the Stargate.
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Re: Earth Ships

Postby Coalition » Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:03 am

Graham Kennedy wrote:There are a number of things about the Stargate universe that don't make much sense, and this is certainly one of them. Even if you ignore the big ships being spaceships/starships, just building a naval ship of that size would be staggeringly expensive and take a vast amount of time. Look at the Ford class carrier - it's been nearly fifteen years since construction started and the ship still isn't operational. But the same industrial base produced a ship that's like three or four times that size, incorporating several utterly revolutionary technologies, in the space of what, five years? Hell, just making the missiles that can fly in space would probably take over a decade.


The only thing I can think of is the Asgard helped out with that, using their systems to model the ship and identify problems. The material sciences used in the missiles? Tested in Asgard simulations. The programming needed for zero-G maneuvering? Asgard simulations. The entire ship being tested to make sure components connect to each other, can be removed for maintenance/repair/replacement, and there is enough room for everyone to walk around and nearby bathrooms? Asgard simulations.

All the prototype issues that normally pop up when a ship is doing a shakedown would likely be caught by the Asgard systems, and corrected before the first piece of ship skeleton is even smelted. Gravity issues, shielding grid, targeting systems, communications, all would be tested by the Asgard system.

The Asgard aren't helping to build the ship, and they aren't providing any of their technology in the ship, they just provided a virtual environment that the ship can be thoroughly tested in.

Similar to if a smaller nation built its own ship in NewPort News, and the US government provided its people as inspectors during the design and construction process. The smaller nation is designing their own ship, but the Newport News people are all popping in and identifying problems using their own knowledge/experience. They are not providing solutions, but they are spotting problems that would cause issues later.

Graham Kennedy wrote:The other issue for me is keeping it all secret. Having an underground Stargate somewhere, and a dozen or so squad-sized teams to go through it... yeah, I can see that being kept secret. Though even that would be hard. But these people built an interstellar - intergalactic! - fleet of warships and fought at least three different major interstellar wars. There must be tens of thousands of people involved in the various projects, lately spanning several different governments, and it's all completely secret. It's utterly absurd.

And jesus, can you even imagine the shitstorm that's going to happen when it comes out? I don't think the writers really grasp it. It would probably provoke a total loss of confidence, not just in the government of the day, but in the entire system of government. I kept waiting for some version of Stargate to go there, but they never did. And they longer they leave it, the bigger the ensuing shitstorm would be.


And yet, the SGC still wanted other nations to release the information about the Stargate program to their people
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