Time to save 2% of the world

Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby SomosFuga » Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:13 am

Jim wrote:I saw the SG teams as scouts, and scouts only. They often spoke about other teams (science, diplomatic, etc) coming through to the planets that they visited later on. They also developed the URVs and such to extend the original trips reach. But I viewed the SG teams and a "lets take a look and see what we see, assess the situation, then move on to the next gate" kind of thing. They are just the toe in the water... other groups would dive in the deep end later if deemed worth while.


That's it.
Also remember they were at war, so although they wanted to get advanced tech and other resources, they didn't have much time to explore whole worlds for years.

The language thing is an issue in most sci fi in tv and movies.
i.e. in ST they use universal translator but sometimes somebody says a word in klingon and there is not translation like in ST VI when Chang quotes Shakespeare or when Uhura is talking to those klingons and she had to translate using a dictionary (they even believed it, so what, no accent?). There is no explanation to that.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Coalition » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:17 am

When they wanted to get tech from a local government, that government would have the tech base to have connections to the rest of the planet so there was no need to explore. If the local planet didn't have the tech they needed, there was no need to quickly explore either. Think about the Tollan. They had nice tech, and the SGC didn't have to explore much since they could communicate easily. Basically, if the government had tech they wanted, the planet would have the communications network as well. The only exceptions were the times they had to find an Ancient database, but considering the planet was deserted that made sense.

The real fun was all the times the SGC made exposure of the Stargate system to the local planet a requirement of aid, yet the SGC didn't want to expose the Stargate secret to Earth.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Teaos » Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:32 pm

Yeah I always found that very hypocrytical of them.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Graham Kennedy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:52 pm

I always thought it got a bit ridiculous that they didn't reveal the Stargate to the world. At the start, you can see it - mysterious object leading to other worlds, all sorts of historical and religious implications, an alien threat, the chance to find technological goodies. And importantly, it's all fairly small scale. For the early seasons, the whole of the Stargate program would be what, 50 or so people on the actual SG teams, and another few hundred support staff or so?

By the end of it, Earth has been subjected to near annihilation more times than I can count, often saved at the last moment as much through luck as anything. America has fought at least two galactic wars in which the very survival of the whole planet was at stake - and that's just in this galaxy, throw in another couple of such wars for Andromeda. The US has built not one but several interstellar warships. There are offworld colonies. Lord knows how many people have died, even just on our side - hundreds? And every major government on Earth is at least informed of what's happened, if not actively participating. The Stargate project has to involve tens of thousands of personnel and be consuming tens of billions of dollars a year, if not hundreds of billions. And they're still keeping it secret.

It's like the conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories. It's nutty to even think that they could keep it secret any more, and the reason to do so is tenuous at best. I always thought it would have been a good idea to just do a couple of episodes where they reveal the truth to the public, and from then on just have the show set in a world where it's all known about.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Teaos » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:00 pm

They mentioned a few times that they are revealing advanced tech at a stupidly high rate and they do intend to reveal it. But yeah, by the end of SG-U there would have to be at least tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people involved, and they seemed to have got prety lax about who they let know about it.

But aall the talk of mass panic, if they le tthe information out in bursts over a few months carefully timed... I cant see it being that bad, infact it would probably be good.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Fri Jul 13, 2012 3:20 pm

God, I hate them keeping it a secret like that. Hate hate HATE! :evil: :bangwall: Like with that tower in Seattle being transported out and still lying about it! It's status quo for the sake of status quo.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby SomosFuga » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:37 am

GrahamKennedy wrote:I always thought it got a bit ridiculous that they didn't reveal the Stargate to the world. At the start, you can see it - mysterious object leading to other worlds, all sorts of historical and religious implications, an alien threat, the chance to find technological goodies. And importantly, it's all fairly small scale. For the early seasons, the whole of the Stargate program would be what, 50 or so people on the actual SG teams, and another few hundred support staff or so?

By the end of it, Earth has been subjected to near annihilation more times than I can count, often saved at the last moment as much through luck as anything. America has fought at least two galactic wars in which the very survival of the whole planet was at stake - and that's just in this galaxy, throw in another couple of such wars for Andromeda. The US has built not one but several interstellar warships. There are offworld colonies. Lord knows how many people have died, even just on our side - hundreds? And every major government on Earth is at least informed of what's happened, if not actively participating. The Stargate project has to involve tens of thousands of personnel and be consuming tens of billions of dollars a year, if not hundreds of billions. And they're still keeping it secret.

It's like the conspiracy theory to end all conspiracy theories. It's nutty to even think that they could keep it secret any more, and the reason to do so is tenuous at best. I always thought it would have been a good idea to just do a couple of episodes where they reveal the truth to the public, and from then on just have the show set in a world where it's all known about.


I do agree.
If Earth has been fighting interstellar/intergalactic wars for more than 10 years, it would be nice for us to know it. It would be good for the war effort, just think about how many resourses they spent on maintaining the secrecy. How many scientists, soldiers, explorers, etc would join the program?
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby McAvoy » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:44 pm

I agree. By the end of SG-1 and Atlantis the SGC operation is so large it should be incredibly difficult not to have alot of people start wondering what is going on. I mean, they are building F-302s, 304s, have a lot of military and civilian personnel including from other countries involved.

Not to mention there people out there already suspecting something is going on between the coverups and even a whole high school reunion party, plus smaller stuff.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Deepcrush » Sun Sep 09, 2012 1:28 pm

Exactly how is anyone figuring tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of people involved? A company worth of russians, a battalion of Americans at most (though even then most wouldn't have to know whats going on below them), maybe two hundred people for the other side groups and countries. Hell, the people working on the tech don't have to have a clue where its coming from. The persons who make up the building staff and crew of the new ships don't have to know where it all comes from.

Considering how stupid the average civilian is (and even the few better ones still can't grasp the organization needed for such a project), keeping something like that secret from the public is more then likely pretty easy. Ten billion dollars a year, spread across how many governments? Bush Jr took more then that every year he was in office for his own pockets and it still took three years for anyone to notice. Some soldiers die on missions? Troops and agents die every day around the world and people couldn't care less.

Keeping secrets from other governments is hard, keeping them from the populace is easy.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:26 pm

The 303 and 304 project alone would have personal numbering at least the tens of thousands involved with them.

Hell with the space fleet they currently field it is almost a entirely separate part of the armed forces now equal in size and power to the other branches.

Add to that all the scientists and support staff brought in on consulting and tech, all the off world bases and research labs...

2 people can keep a secret if one of them is dead. There is no way this is being kept secret...
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Sonic Glitch » Tue Sep 11, 2012 4:05 pm

Depending on how compartmentalized the information is, it is possible that except for select military personnel no one knows the entirety of what is happening. For example, the civilian contractors could know they are working on some sort of revolutionary, space-age fighter (literally) for the USAF (the F-302) and know that it is affected by a program classified even higher than that, BUT they wouldn't necessarily know about the Stargate program. Or, consultants/personnel could know they're working on literal spaceships for the US Military/A Top Secret Government Program and again, not know the nature of the program they are also working with.

So it is eminently possible probable the personnel know of the existence of other classified programs surrounding their work, but they do not necessarily know what all of those programs are.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:42 pm

Teaos wrote:Hell with the space fleet they currently field it is almost a entirely separate part of the armed forces now equal in size and power to the other branches.


Not quite - the 304s look to be pretty light on manpower, given that they can be run by a single SG team, and even maintained by one for decades at minimum levels. The total crew is probably low hundreds, tops, compared to thousands on a Nimitz.

As for firepower, a single 304 probably handily outguns the rest of the planet. I doubt the US Navy has started putting Gatebusters on its Tridents.
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Re: Time to save 2% of the world

Postby Deepcrush » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:23 pm

The important thing about the military is how you make a secret vs keeping it. A secret is something that people know and know they have to keep to themselves at the risk of someone who shouldn't know finding out. The key in the armed forces, is simply to not make a secret. "Here, use this on this like this". No clue as to where it comes from, how it works, why it works. Soldiers don't care if its from Area 51, Mars or pizza hut. If it means I don't die then I'm happy. The SG program likely operates on the same ideal, being that its military run.

Also, don't mistake the numbers of people needed to make a project work as being the same as the numbers of people that will know whats going on. There were 15.5 million people enlisted in the US during WWII, but it would be really fucking stupid to try and say that every single one of them knew about the Manhattan Project. In fact, Truman didn't even know about it until the third day in office.
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