Theory About Why Marvel Movies Work and DC Movies Don't

[Nutso]

Mark Millar Has an Interesting Theory About Why Marvel Movies Work and DC Movies Don't

“I think it’s really simple,” (Mark) Millar said. “The [DC] characters aren’t cinematic.”

Strap in everyone.

And I say [that] as a massive DC fan who much prefers their characters to Marvel’s. Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are some of my favorites but I think these characters, with the exception of Batman, they aren’t based around their secret identity. They are based around their super power. Whereas the Marvel characters tend to be based around the personality of Matt Murdock or Peter Parker or the individual X-Men, it’s all about the character. DC, outside of Batman, is not about the character. With Batman, you can understand him and you can worry about him but someone like Green Lantern, he has this ring that allows him to create 3D physical manifestations and green plasma with the thoughts in his head but he’s allergic to the color yellow! How do you make a movie with that? In 1952 that made perfect sense but now the audience have no idea what that’s all about.

Millar continued, very aware his comments could start some major shit.

People will slam me for this but I think the evidence is there. We’ve seen great directors, great writers and great actors, tonnes of money thrown at them, but these films aren’t working. I think they are all too far away from when they were created. Something feels a little old about them, kids look at these characters and they don’t feel that cool. Even Superman, I love Superman, but he belongs to an America that doesn’t exist anymore. He represents 20th Century America and I think he peaked then.

[Mikey]

I feel like this can be partly true, but isn’t comprehensive enough. It doesn’t do to ignore the bass-ackward way DC tried to circumlocute their way to a connected universe or their lack of a Feige or a Whedon brother or two.

[DonP]

What Mikey said. Marvel may have had a plan from the start, but they still built their way into it. DC just threw their entire stable at the audience. DC also labors under the delusion that because people like Batman to be dark and serious, that they want all superhero movies to feel that way.

[Graham Kennedy]

I suspect most of the blame falls on Snyder.

We saw with Wonder Woman that DC movies CAN work... if you put the movie into the hands of somebody who knows what they're doing and wants to be true to the character, and then let them get on with it.

Snyder doesn't seem to understand the characters, or want to. In fact from what I've read he's an objectivist, and as such is baffled as to why Superman helps other people. Which is why we get the abomination of the Kents telling Clark it would be okay to just let them all die.

Marvel movies reek of creative people who want to tell a story. DC movies reek of movies made to a checklist written from the results of a set of focus groups.

[AlexMcpherson79]

What Mikey said. Marvel may have had a plan from the start, but they still built their way into it. DC just threw their entire stable at the audience. DC also labors under the delusion that because people like Batman to be dark and serious, that they want all superhero movies to feel that way.

We like our:
Guardians of the Galaxy just chock-full of humor, almost a parody of the marvel universe... And he even saved Xandar (and probably the galaxy) by Dancing. That plan takes some planet-sized balls right there.

Captain America to be brooding about his past, made worse because everything that survived into the new century alongside him, didn't make it without loosing something, or getting twisted. Peggy Carter was old, and her creation turned out to have been pretty much stolen by HYDRA. Bucky he thought was dead before the valkyrie crashed, turns out he's alive, only HYDRA stole HIM and turned Bucky's sharpshooting skills to their advantage, and oh look, one of brainwashed-bucky's targets was a friend of theirs. His entire journey is pretty much that of a man trying to do the right thing, and suffering for it. Stop Red Skull? Sixty-plus years in the ice. Worked with SHIELD to protect people, no wait HYDRA was using him and turned against him before he even knew they were HYDRA. Save his best friend from a witch-hunt frame-job... after SHIELDGate, and then what was happening with the Sokovia Accords, is it really any wonder he did what he did? He broods, his story is dark, but unlike BATMAN... he holds onto the Light, his story is both light and dark. Batman is just... boring.

Thor's Journey evolved, He used to think no further than the end of the day, then the consequences of his actions was slapped into his face. He grew up. And one day, he'd learned how to take his responsibilities seriously, while having a good sense of humor, to the point that unlike before, he could carry that humor into battle, yet loose none of the seriousness that the situations call for, using it as as much of a weapon as he does his hammer. (Earth did good for him).

And we like our Tony Stark to be a boozing genius with the social skills of a chimp.... or is that just me?


DC?
I... don't know how Justice league ended. I turned it off halfway through and dele-er, gave the borrowed dvd back to some family member I borrowed it from. Yeah. Borrowed. Ahem. Washed out colours, boring story, boring villain, and the one character who definitely should have brought some laughs... no. Sorry Ezra. Barry Allen you are not.

Suicide Squad? pah. Another boring affair. And sorry Will Smith, as much hassle that had been made over Deadshot being made into a black guy, its not the 'black guy' part of your casting I didn't like. I wanted to like it - right up until I saw how you played him. Forgive me if I though you were bringing a breath of fresh prince to a character not known for a positive outlook on life. Should have known. this is DC movies we're talking about. The only two bits of SS I liked was with that fire-guy... and his whole 'I dont want to hurt people' story, but that is still a broody tale, and well, the fact I know him as 'fire-guy' isn't all that great. Margot Robbie as Harley... that... that is really the one bright spot, I think. And the sole reason many people went to watch. They certainly didn't to see that guy-from-a-band-whose-name-I-don't-know get blown up in the first five minutes, or the aussie boomerang guy with a down-right creepy thing with his unicorn. And that Deleveen girl was her typical 'bland' self, though at least they chose a suitable character for her to be bland with, since you know, the character is supposed to be pretty much 'dead inside' psychologically after all the 'I host an immortal witch' thing. But after Suicide Squad, you went and did Valerian and the Mess of CG Worlds movie.

And oh lord... BVS. I want my money back. Grey. Grey. More Grey. isn't the suit supposed to be a bright Red cape and Blue with a bright Red House of El symbol? it looks... Grey. Sarcasm, Set to Maximum, oooh, batman must be able to beat Superman now that he's wearing half a tonne of metal... but where's his rocket bootS? Oh, right, he can't have those because then it gets too close to being 'iron man'. But he uses a zip wire gun to fly around, despite that wire needing to pick up all weight when being anchored to regular walls. It's like the spiderman climbing the ceiling paradox that I HAVE seen pointed out by not being a paradox - a few scenes were the plaster board (and spiderman) falls to the ground because it can't actually take his weight. Here, we're supposed to believe that the walls are strong enough, and tight when the grapple embeds into said walls, to pull a 600KG batman at a FAST SPEED.

yes yes superhero worlds, but thats missing the point that before, they didn't care about it being set in a 'real world setting'. since Marvel, they've pretty much taken that, "It's our world, but with superpowers!" thing and ran with it, not caring about the ripple effects they should take into account. both the powers on the world, and the world on the use of those powers... like, for instance, Spider-man crawling along the roof, only to miss-place a hand and a foot to where they're not directly over (Or should I say, under) the roof joists and so the plaster can't take the weight between them, and bam, he falls to the floor. I saw it in an ANIMATED scene somewhere.

Even Transformers movies got rid of the "12 foot tall robot turns into a three inch casette tape player" mass-shifting thing from the cartoon.

Marvel's approach is better.

Iron Man is a technologically-oriented genius prodigy. We SEE him working on the first few parts of the Mk 2, showing that yes it is POWERED ARMOR beneath the plates, then after that no need to show it. We know that his armors are supposed to be basically possible within the laws of physics... somehow. (Best part of the first movie: "Flight Test Number One..." ouch. "I think I need stabilisers.". As in, it's going the route of realism: its not just rocket boots, but he needs a way of stabilising is flight, since he doesnt' have wings/etc/etc.)

Captain America is still human, the serum just somehow made it so that his muscles work at like 100% efficiency. Anyone who knows the neurological side of muscles knows that we don't actually use all the muscle mass, aka the neuroelectric signal that 'tenses' the muscle fibres, not all fibres get that even when we work our hardest. And there are real people in the real world who use more percentage of existing mass than most to the point of being capable of things otherwise impossible for ourselves. Captain America serum is basically, that. a highly-effective drug, but previous "human trials" failed (red skull), etc. Sure, he's strong enough to stop a helicopter taking off, but he has to grab something to anchor himself when he does otherwise it would just take off, with him holding on. And he can get dirty. As do all the other avengers, during the battle.

Thor is an Alien, so... there's that.

And I think the Ancient One put it best for Doctor Strange. Unless I'm remembering another movie (probably both) that takes and runs with the idea that 'Magic is just another word for science'. (My definition: Science is what we know, Magic is what we don't. I don't know how aerodynamics work properly, so its magic to me. especially for cars. less so for planes, since I 'get' the wing design principal at least - so that part is science to me.)




I may have overthought this a little.

[McAvoy]

I think also there might be underlying issue that DCU has an issue with the upper management. To me it seems like they don't know what they want but want... something. So they get too involved in something they should leave alone. Justice League is an example. You can almost tell the difference between the two directors.

Also the modern Batman is supposed to be dark and brooding. He has been like this for 30 or more years now. Superman was supposed to be the opposite. In fact you can argue Batman and Superman are Ying yang to each other.

[Graham Kennedy]

I am so sick and tired of seeing a miserable brooding Superman. Maybe he's like that in the comics, but my Superman is Christopher Reeves. The man regards doing good as his moral duty, and he enjoys it as well! A Superman whose parents say he could just as well let people die, who saves people whilst looking depressed about it whilst mournful music plays and voiceovers ask if he has a right to do it at all... that's not my Superman.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I am so sick and tired of seeing a miserable brooding Superman. Maybe he's like that in the comics, but my Superman is Christopher Reeves. The man regards doing good as his moral duty, and he enjoys it as well! A Superman whose parents say he could just as well let people die, who saves people whilst looking depressed about it whilst mournful music plays and voiceovers ask if he has a right to do it at all... that's not my Superman.

Agreed 100%. I'd almost be willing to say Henry Cavill is the worst live-action Superman I've ever seen.

[Graham Kennedy]

I don't blame Cavill, though. He could be a good Superman, he has the physicality and he seems like a decent actor. But the writing and direction they've given him has been painful to watch.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I don't blame Cavill, though. He could be a good Superman, he has the physicality and he seems like a decent actor. But the writing and direction they've given him has been painful to watch.

I don't blame him, either. You're right that it's mostly external problems. The thing is, though, he's still the worst I've seen.

I have this insane idea of the Christopher Reeve Superman somehow landing in the DCCU. He walks around and realizes, "This world needs help!" And he helps, because he's Superman. But when he meets the other Justice League members, they're all blinded. Because he's so bright and colorful!

Batman: "My god, I can't see! So... bright..."

Then he smiles and it's like the flash of a nuke to them. And the only one relatively unaffected? Wonder Woman.

[Graham Kennedy]

The funny thing is that a real Superman would feel so weird in the current DC universe. But if you made a real Superman movie and put this modern grim Batman into it, then Batman would be the one who looked massively out of place. Those two just don't go together.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

The funny thing is that a real Superman would feel so weird in the current DC universe. But if you made a real Superman movie and put this modern grim Batman into it, then Batman would be the one who looked massively out of place. Those two just don't go together.

My dream team-up would be the Christopher Reeve Superman... and the Adam West Batman.

[DonP]

I wouldn't say they don't go together so much as that it takes talent. The animated series did it quite well and the current Trinity series is good (though it has WW as a moderating influence). It's just REALLY easy to screw up.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I wouldn't say they don't go together so much as that it takes talent. The animated series did it quite well and the current Trinity series is good (though it has WW as a moderating influence). It's just REALLY easy to screw up.

Yeah. Batman and Superman can work well as a team. It takes effort, but it's doable.

[Bryan Moore]

The Batman/Superman pairing has always seemed odd at me. One has extraordinary super powers, the other is a genius with remarkable technology. I feel like this is how a "Q vs Scotty" Star Trek novella would play out. (Yes, a bit of an exaggeration).