The curious case of Avatar

[Graham Kennedy]

I was listening to a Cracked podcast and they mentioned Avatar. What they had to say struck me as odd and very true, something I'd not thought of before.

Avatar, we should remember, is the highest grossing film of all time. It was a tremendous financial juggernaut - the recent Star Wars movie didn't even come that close to matching it!

And yet, Avatar is an almost completely forgotten movie.

Think about it. How well do you remember Avatar? I'm not saying you've literally forgotten it or anything, but looking back from a few years, what stands out about it to you? Can you name the memorable character that everyone loves? The big action scene that's still regarded as groundbreaking? The iconic ship design? Can you even think of a single example of Avatar being referenced in popular culture?

Are there any Avatar spinoffs? No there are not. No kid's cartoon set on Pandora, no comic books. There isn't even a novel series, best as I can tell - I found a news announcement from 2013 saying that they were going to write four novels, but I can't find any such novels on Amazon. In fact, I can't even find a novelisation of the movie on Amazon!

Decades later you can still say "Do, or do not - there is no try!" and people will laugh and get it. You can still say "Beam me up, Scotty", and people will know what you mean. Can you name anything from Avatar that you could reference and have most people immediately know what you were talking about?

One of the things Cameron really loved about Avatar was Pandora - he was practically obsessed with getting all the little details of the ecology right, he had all the ecological relationships between the animals and plants worked out, etc. Who cares about any of that now? Does anybody even remember the names of any of those creatures?

Even technically, the movies have flopped. A great deal was made about how fantastic the 3D system created for the film was - and it truly was, Avatar is absolutely stunning in 3D on a cinema screen. But how many other movies have used that system since Avatar? None. Lucas created ILM to make Star Wars, pioneering computer controlled motion tracking cameras. That was a special effects revolution that was subsequently used in countless movies - ILM went on to dominate the entire special effects industry for years and years. Avatar produced a special effects revolution that has... sank without trace.

I even said something about this at the time. Avatar came out just around the time that Clash of the Titans did. Clash was also released in 3D, because they figured they wanted some of that Avatar 3D movie. But Clash was not filmed in 3D. Rather, they took a 2D print, washed it through a computer, and turned it into 3D. Critics at the time said the 3D in Clash looked terrible... but it was cheap, and that method meant you could use existing filming methods rather than the bespoke, complicated-as-hell Avatar system. At the time I said to people "Keep an eye on this, because this is the way of the future for 3D". And now a lot of movies are made exactly this way.

I remember at the time Avatar came out, it was massive - there were stories of people being depressed, even suicidal, because they couldn't go and live on Pandora. But six months later, it was like it just evaporated from history. It's not even that people have come to hate the movie... people don't hate it because they don't care about it enough to hate it.

Why is it, do you think, that Avatar is so curiously forgotten? And will this be the case with the upcoming sequels?

[Mikey]

You are correct, the disappearance of Avatar from modern pop culture is truly a phenomenon. My own simple hypothesis for this phenomenon is this: it just wasn't that good. What made it so hugely successful were all the things that patently don't make a film stand up to retrospection. That is, Avatar was such a box-office juggernaut because of its visual appeal, stunning effects, that amazing 3D presentation you mentioned, et. al. What didn't have a hand in that success was the superb storytelling, the memorable acting, the subtlety of the themes, the iconic a/o iconoclastic character-building, or the novelty of the dramatic presentation... because it possessed none of those things. The story was basic, the themes were presented in the most ham-fisted and obvious way possible, the acting was strictly off-the-shelf. The films we remember are not the ones that wowed our eyes, they are the ones that wowed our brains. Think of some of the most iconic and enduring lines from moviedom:

"Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

"Rosebud..."

"You know how to whistle, don't you? Just put your lips together, and blow."

"Yo, Adrienne!"

"Here's looking at you, kid."

"No, I am Spartacus!"

Exactly zero of those are remembered for their source films' dazzling effects or outstandingly creative filming technology. On the contrary, Avatar was all style and no substance.

[McAvoy]

It's funny I was think about the movie the other day.

The only thing memorable is the big blue species itself.

This could be the case of a movie made so well, written so well with its own defects, with a premise so groundbreaking that it does not require memorable or kid friendly characters.

I think that is the key IMO, is kid friendly. Kid friendly makes it easy for adults to get attached to too.

[Jim]

The writing was bad, but the acting was atrocious. Avitar was popular because of the 3D. IT was the first movie to do 3D well. "well" ... Also, the media said it was a good movie so the sheep went to see it in droves, were dazzled by the 3D, and went to see it again.

I wonder how DVD sales of the movie compare...

[sunnyside]

First off, nobody is wondering what movie you're talking about. Everybody remembers enough to discuss the movie. How much do people typically talk about movies that came out six years ago on a daily basis?

However I find it does come up somewhat often. Because:

I even said something about this at the time. Avatar came out just around the time that Clash of the Titans did. Clash was also released in 3D, because they figured they wanted some of that Avatar 3D movie. But Clash was not filmed in 3D. Rather, they took a 2D print, washed it through a computer, and turned it into 3D. Critics at the time said the 3D in Clash looked terrible... but it was cheap, and that method meant you could use existing filming methods rather than the bespoke, complicated-as-hell Avatar system. At the time I said to people "Keep an eye on this, because this is the way of the future for 3D". And now a lot of movies are made exactly this way.

Avatar comes up in conversation because it's the bar other 3D movies are compared against, and they do not come out favorably. Pretty much every other move tries to upcharge you for 3D and all you get is a couple stupid "poke in the eye" effects at some point. I've gotten to where I'll just watch movies in 2D again even with a 3D option.

But Pandora amazed. I bet a lot of people can remember the name of the planet(moon) that have forgotten the names of the characters and the dialog. Which seems fair since, as has been noted, it seems a lot more effort went into Pandora than the writing.

I do wonder if the sequel will hit people as hard simply because they've been exposed to it all once before.

[Coalition]

It also spawned a meme - http://i.imgur.com/PkdVXpH.jpg

Still, the issue is that Avatar was a pretty but shallow movie. It was Fern Gully or Pocahontas in Space, not much more.


Now what would be interesting to watch in Avatar 2 is the drone shuttles being used to toss asteroids at Pandora, but Jake (and the other scientists) using Eywa and the Unobtainium deposits to launch rocks into space to counter-attack.

[Graham Kennedy]

It also spawned a meme - http://i.imgur.com/PkdVXpH.jpg

Ha, love that one.

Still, the issue is that Avatar was a pretty but shallow movie. It was Fern Gully or Pocahontas in Space, not much more.

Agreed. But I wonder if there isn't more going on than that. Absolutely, Avatar was a 'workmanlike' story that had been done before. But so are a lot of movies that haven't sunk without trace - hell, Titanic is a pretty pedestrian cliche-storm of a story itself. But Titanic, unlike Avatar, has hung around in the public consciousness.

Now what would be interesting to watch in Avatar 2 is the drone shuttles being used to toss asteroids at Pandora, but Jake (and the other scientists) using Eywa and the Unobtainium deposits to launch rocks into space to counter-attack.

I've not seen any plot spoilers or anything, but my impression is that there won't be humans at all in Avatar 2. I would love to see Avatar 2 being the "Empire Strikes Back" of the story, with Humans returning in force and kicking some blue-monkey butt. But I don't think Cameron is insterested in that conflict at all - to him, it was just a hook to get people interested in Pandora. That's what he's really interested in, this alien world he's constructed. I bet the remaining movies are going to be all about that.

[Mikey]

I bet the remaining movies are going to be all about that.

Well, if that's the case, then the day the sequel comes out I'm going to run right out and... go get some coffee, or a light lunch, or something.

[sunnyside]

Still, the issue is that Avatar was a pretty but shallow movie. It was Fern Gully or Pocahontas in Space, not much more.

Agreed. But I wonder if there isn't more going on than that. Absolutely, Avatar was a 'workmanlike' story that had been done before. But so are a lot of movies

You know, I wonder if that isn't somewhat deliberate, and perhaps the other side of the coin of people appreciating the 3D so much. I wouldn't be surprised if in his directing Cameron had the actors move to quit getting in the way of the world. I doubt that happened in other movies, but that results in two people standing in plane talking or whatever, and that doesn't make for compelling visuals over a range of depth. Similarly while you can boil most movies stories down to some tried and true trope, they have b plots and c plots and various twists thrown into the mix whereas the plot in avatar had a bit more of the feel of getting you from point a to point b. However that allowed for camera time exploring the world.

Now what would be interesting to watch in Avatar 2 is the drone shuttles being used to toss asteroids at Pandora, but Jake (and the other scientists) using Eywa and the Unobtainium deposits to launch rocks into space to counter-attack.

I've not seen any plot spoilers or anything, but my impression is that there won't be humans at all in Avatar 2. I would love to see Avatar 2 being the "Empire Strikes Back" of the story, with Humans returning in force and kicking some blue-monkey butt. But I don't think Cameron is insterested in that conflict at all - to him, it was just a hook to get people interested in Pandora. That's what he's really interested in, this alien world he's constructed. I bet the remaining movies are going to be all about that.

There is a trailer out you know. I get the feeling it could have a strong Empire flavor. However I think it still isn't any kind of military operation, and is more analogous to private contractors in South America utilizing mercenaries and mostly civilian weaponry to deal with native tribes while trying to avoid too much government attention. That's why the human weapons in Avatar aren't really different from what we have today, despite the huge leaps they've made in other technologies. I'm expecting them to keep that theme, except that previously the humans hadn't taken the Na'vi threat very seriously, but this time they will, hence the Empire flavor.

[Mikey]

I wouldn't be surprised if in his directing Cameron had the actors move to quit getting in the way of the world.

I am perhaps a born cynic, but I tend to think that the plot failures in Avatar were due more to disregard for the mentality of the audience a/o a feeling that with the effects, a substandard story was "good enough," rather than any concession to aesthetics.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I have never actually seen Avatar. I have no desire to, either. It has zero interest/hold on me.

It also spawned a meme - http://i.imgur.com/PkdVXpH.jpg

On one message board I post to, that man's almost worshiped as a god.

[sunnyside]

On the note of curious things about Avatar, I find it interesting how the crowd here has reacted to it. The plot, in large part, is a political message and hits with people it resonates with.

Based on political threads a lot of folks here come off as hippie socialists, at least as Americans measure such things, however even from the earliest threads here there's been a lot more love for the capitalists than I'd have anticipated.

Is it sort of like in the meme Coalition linked where folks on this site are predisposed to root for the people with the spaceship? Backlash against an overly straightforward plot?

[sunnyside]

On the note of curious things about Avatar, I find it interesting how the crowd here has reacted to it. The plot, in large part, is a political message and hits with people it resonates with.

Based on political threads a lot of folks here come off as hippie socialists, at least as Americans measure such things, however even from the earliest threads here there's been a lot more love for the capitalists than I'd have anticipated.

Is it sort of like in the meme Coalition linked where folks on this site are predisposed to root for the people with the spaceship? Backlash against an overly straightforward plot?

[Mikey]

No. I firmly believe that the issue most of us have is that though we may agree with the ideology, the presentation of it was so ham-fisted and obvious in the movie that it actually became a detraction from the entertanment a film is supposed to provide. The problem isn't that of the views presented in Avatar - the problem is that a feature film is the wrong venue for straightforward political dogma that isn't even disguised as part of a story.

[Graham Kennedy]

You know, I wonder if that isn't somewhat deliberate, and perhaps the other side of the coin of people appreciating the 3D so much. I wouldn't be surprised if in his directing Cameron had the actors move to quit getting in the way of the world.

It's something Cameron started with Titanic. Titanic and Avatar were both massively risky movies, and I suspect that led him to be massively conservative with the stories and characters. It's a real shame, IMO.

There is a trailer out you know.

I didn't! (Rushes off to watch.)

Hmm, I'm not finding any trailer. The only ones I see are fan made, nothing that seems to be a real trailer.