Pacific Rim [spoilers]

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

"Sometimes a cartoon just needs to be a cartoon... even when it is people!" Great way to put it. I always refer to that "feel" as escapism... but I might have to start using that line.

Yeh, well the only thing you were escaping from with this junk was a good film.

No, I was escaping the heat here and into a fun time where I could lose myself, enjoy the movie and... well, have fun.

It was crap, plain and simple. You couldn't see what was going on in any of the action films and the characters where so obvious to the point of being painful. I'm beginning to think you guys will watch any old crap if it has giant robots or scenes of mass destruction in it.

No, it was not. I've got pretty bad eyesight and could tell exactly what was going on in just about every fight scene. The characters being obvious is not a 'bad' thing either. They spoke with actions and were fully-formed when we first saw them.

You know what? Fine, you don't like it. It's not for you. Cool. But dammit this movie was for me. And I enjoyed it and dammit I am trumpeting my feelings from on high. I'm not letting anyone dampen my enthusiasm for Pacific Rim.

[Tyyr]

I did like the nuclear explosion though underwater. I liked the double wave. The one pushing water away and the water coming back. I have no idea if that is realistic.

It is, sort of. When a nuke is detonated underwater it creates a gigantic steam bubble. Very quickly afterwards the bubble collapses. So Gipsy was actually standing in a bubble of superheated steam before the water came rushing back due to the bubble's collapse. The only thing is they vastly over estimated the size of the bubble. A 1.2 megaton bomb would only make a bubble a few hundred meters wide and would last for just a couple seconds. They had something more akin to a Tsar Bomba effect.

And since the main selling point is giant robots fighting giant monsters, shouldn't we be able to actually SEE the fights? True it wasn't as incoherent as the Transformers action scenes, but almost-black monsters fighting at night with massive amounts of splashing and dust obscuring the scene most of the time... ugh. Never once had a really clear impression of what the creatures looked like, and never really got any sense of how the fights were going.

Not really sure what your issue was. I saw it in 3D (they only had 3D showings opening night, damn it.) which is notorious for making things overly dark and I was still able to see what was going on with no issues, know what the monsters looked like, and know how the fights were going. I've listened to and read a lot of critiques of the movie from people who've loved it, hated it, or were meh about it and you guys are the first to say anything about not being able to see what was going on. Some people wished there were more day fights and I agree, but mostly as a change of pace.

That oil tanker should have been that sturdy to begin with. The moment it was lifted off of the water it should have been slowly tearing itself apart from gravity.

Well yeah, then again a lot of the stuff in the movie was like that. The entire premise of invading another world via giant fucking monsters one at a time or fighting said monsters with giant robots is ridiculous.

I'm beginning to think you guys will watch any old crap if it has giant robots or scenes of mass destruction in it.

And I'm pretty sure you're dyed in the wool contrarian who compulsively dislikes things for being popular.

[Graham Kennedy]

Yes, well other people get to trumpet their feelings too.

[Tyyr]

Certainly, however where as you've got some discussable points Ian's coming off more like Jim in the Game of Throne's thread.

[Jim]

"Sometimes a cartoon just needs to be a cartoon... even when it is people!" Great way to put it. I always refer to that "feel" as escapism... but I might have to start using that line.

Yeh, well the only thing you were escaping from with this junk was a good film.

I agree that it was not a great flick... but I went into the theater with the mindset of the little kid that would sit in front of the tv every Sunday at nnon and watch a Godzilla movie (I believe that it was local channel 53 WPGH, but it was the last 70's so I do not quite remember). I also went with my buddy and his 4 year old son, who say between us. His excitement spilled over a bit too.

[IanKennedy]

"Sometimes a cartoon just needs to be a cartoon... even when it is people!" Great way to put it. I always refer to that "feel" as escapism... but I might have to start using that line.

Yeh, well the only thing you were escaping from with this junk was a good film.

No, I was escaping the heat here and into a fun time where I could lose myself, enjoy the movie and... well, have fun.

I had more fun driving to the cimema than watching the movie.

It was crap, plain and simple. You couldn't see what was going on in any of the action films and the characters where so obvious to the point of being painful. I'm beginning to think you guys will watch any old crap if it has giant robots or scenes of mass destruction in it.

No, it was not. I've got pretty bad eyesight and could tell exactly what was going on in just about every fight scene. The characters being obvious is not a 'bad' thing either. They spoke with actions and were fully-formed when we first saw them.

They were about as fully formed as a piece of tissue paper.

You know what? Fine, you don't like it. It's not for you. Cool. But dammit this movie was for me. And I enjoyed it and dammit I am trumpeting my feelings from on high. I'm not letting anyone dampen my enthusiasm for Pacific Rim.

I kinda see it like a 5 year old not wanting to see the problems in a Disney movie, I've no problem with that but I did think you were older than 5 years old.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I kinda see it like a 5 year old not wanting to see the problems in a Disney movie, I've no problem with that but I did think you were older than 5 years old.

Your wit slays me.

[IanKennedy]

And since the main selling point is giant robots fighting giant monsters, shouldn't we be able to actually SEE the fights? True it wasn't as incoherent as the Transformers action scenes, but almost-black monsters fighting at night with massive amounts of splashing and dust obscuring the scene most of the time... ugh. Never once had a really clear impression of what the creatures looked like, and never really got any sense of how the fights were going.

Not really sure what your issue was. I saw it in 3D (they only had 3D showings opening night, damn it.) which is notorious for making things overly dark and I was still able to see what was going on with no issues, know what the monsters looked like, and know how the fights were going. I've listened to and read a lot of critiques of the movie from people who've loved it, hated it, or were meh about it and you guys are the first to say anything about not being able to see what was going on. Some people wished there were more day fights and I agree, but mostly as a change of pace.

The problem is not with the brightness, it's with the extremely fast moving camera and the shaky-ness of said camera.

I'm beginning to think you guys will watch any old crap if it has giant robots or scenes of mass destruction in it.

And I'm pretty sure you're dyed in the wool contrarian who compulsively dislikes things for being popular.

No, I like good films that have a plot and characters that are actually worth caring for. I loved Titanic for example and Avatar, two of the most popular films ever released. Popularity isn't an issue, utterly lazily written films that provide you with no emotional link to the characters is a problem. In this film I couldn't find any reason to like the humans or to dislike the monsters. They were simply two sides in a wrestling / boxing match. Most of the humans where ass holes who couldn't even get on with each other in order to save the whole human race.

It was the same thing with Hope Boy. Nobody seemed to give a fuck about anything that happened in the film so why should the viewers. That film and this one are both emotional black holes, devoid of anything other than over the top special effects. It's a pity that they couldn't even keep the camera steady enough to show you the action in detail. That at least would have been something, but alas we didn't even get that benefit.

[IanKennedy]

"Sometimes a cartoon just needs to be a cartoon... even when it is people!" Great way to put it. I always refer to that "feel" as escapism... but I might have to start using that line.

Yeh, well the only thing you were escaping from with this junk was a good film.

I agree that it was not a great flick... but I went into the theater with the mindset of the little kid that would sit in front of the tv every Sunday at nnon and watch a Godzilla movie (I believe that it was local channel 53 WPGH, but it was the last 70's so I do not quite remember). I also went with my buddy and his 4 year old son, who say between us. His excitement spilled over a bit too.

At least in the Godzilla movies you could actually see the monsters and the fights.

[IanKennedy]

Certainly, however where as you've got some discussable points Ian's coming off more like Jim in the Game of Throne's thread.

Here you go:

- Paper thin characters.
- A camera that can't keep still.
- No emotional connection with the people in the movie.

Debate away?

[McAvoy]

You were the only ones so far that had issues with seeing the robots and monsters fight. I didn't have much of an issue about that then any other fight in other movies. I had an issue with darkness and wished for more daylight fights.

Characters have more substance than the average popcorn summer film. Yeah the scientists were somewhat cliche. The dead sibling or dead significant other is cliche.

They should have expanded on the drift so that it makes more of an emotional impact. But they have a time limit on movies and this is a monster flick.

[IanKennedy]

And I'm pretty sure you're dyed in the wool contrarian who compulsively dislikes things for being popular.

So to examine this a little further:

Top 10 grossing films of all time (according to wiki):
1 Avatar
Loved it, want it to come back on the Cinema so I can pay to see it again on a large screen.

2 Titanic
Again loved it. Did go and see it again when it was re-released in 3D.

3 The Avengers
Pretty good, characters were all developed in previous films to I had no problem with them just getting on with it. That said they did look into the way they could work together so that was good. Action was very over the top but in proportion to the threat and was lamented afterwards.

4 Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows – Part 2
Didn't see it. Got board with the franchise after about 2 or 3 of them. Didn't bother with this one.

5 Iron Man 3
Not bad at all. 1 and 2 were better but this was OK.

6 Transformers: Dark of the Moon
Didn't see it. pretty much for the same reasons as Harry Potter...

7 The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
Fantastic. Intelligent characters that actually worked together to 'prevent the end of the world'.

8 Skyfall
Loved it, a very fitting film to bring us to the 50 year point in Bond.

9 The Dark Knight Rises
Very good. Not quite as good as the second one, perhaps on a par with the first. The end was a little dull but I can see why they did it.

10 Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest
Again not at all bad. First film was fantastic a total surprise for a movie based upon a theme park ride. Johnny Depp was fabulous. This wasn't as good.

So, that's liked 8 out of 10. I think you will have to come up with a different theory. Your current one doesn't seem to hold water.

[IanKennedy]

You were the only ones so far that had issues with seeing the robots and monsters fight. I didn't have much of an issue about that then any other fight in other movies. I had an issue with darkness and wished for more daylight fights.

Characters have more substance than the average popcorn summer film. Yeah the scientists were somewhat cliche. The dead sibling or dead significant other is cliche.

They should have expanded on the drift so that it makes more of an emotional impact. But they have a time limit on movies and this is a monster flick.

I don't think either of us has said anything about not wanting a robot to fight a monster. What I want is for the camera to allow you to see what is happening. It's not a conceptual thing at all. Just use wider shots on occasion and keep the pigging camera still. Shaking the camera around is not realism it's a technique to cover up bad effects work. The same is true of the lighting. Everything is pretty much in the dark. Another shitty trick to make the CG budget less.

[Teaos]

I'm sure the lack of clear shots is to help with the fact that if it were still frame and easier to see it would look more... unreal.

[Jim]

This string HAS to be worse than my anti-Game of Snores, er Thrones posts... and that was my own thread started to be a relative anti-show thread and people bitched and cried about me being negative until I realized that the show wasn't worth the time that I was putting into detracting it.