Marvel Phase 3

[Jim]

http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-tal ... 32248.html

First off, Downey IS Iron Man. It would be HUGE shoes to fill for someone else to take over that role. But that is an argument of its own...

Potential Phase 3 movies:

Ant-Man - Obviously, any movie has the potential to be a good film/story, but there is a dimension of the character itself. Ant-Man was one of the first Marvel characters to make it big, but it was a different time. He can get really small, or really big... um, okay. There is a reason that Ant-Man is one of the oldest superheroes and yet no one has heard of him. He is just boring, a background character at best.

Doctor Strange – Dr. Strange’s world had potential. You could do a lot of things with the Sorcerer Supreme. He is basically a galaxy-level power. He would be a good option for stand-alone movies.

Black Panther – He is a... watered down Batman. How about a male Black Widow with Vibranium claws? His background is very politically driven. He is only good for a stand-alone movie if you want to make a “statement”.

Punisher – One of my favorite characters back in the day... but the movies have fallen short. I actually blame the movie failures on the villains. (Not including the 1989 Lundgren version) John Travolta was miscast in the first one and Jigsaw and his brother were just annoying in the second. However, the Punisher is not a “big picture” character. He has had a few movies and they failed so even though it pains me, move on.

Ghost Rider – Ghost Rider is another potentially great character that had doomed due to casting. How does Nic Cage still get acting gigs? Like the Punisher, the Rider is not really a big picture guy. If you recast with someone that can actually act, he is okay for a stand-alone movie but does not fit in with major crossovers.

Daredevil – Daredevil is held back by the same thing that hold Black Panther back... Daredevil protects Hell’s Kitchen, that is his character. Like the Panther he also has no real superpowers. Not worth trying again.

Blade – Blade fights vampires. How many Marvel movies have you seen vampires in so far? Let his character remain (un)dead.

Hulk – The Hulk is an apex power. He is not quite galaxy-level but there are not many beings in the Marvel universe that can beat the Hulk. However... Hulk smash... and... not much else. He should be a sure thing for any and all group movies and potential cameos... but his stand-alone movies should remain in the past.

Inhumans – Guardians of the Galaxy will show if these fringe groups will do well. Many groups have good and bad characters in them. There have been many super-groups in Marvel over the years. I am not really sure why they are picking the ones that they are...

Runaways – Same as above with the potential to be directed more at kids as opposed to adults.

Marvel Zombies – I would love to see a movie on this, but I do not think that it would work in the main Marvel movie universe. Sort of like with Blade, this is a very specific thing. The concept is to take the Marvel universe and have a zombie outbreak so that you end up with zombies with superpowers. It would almost have to be a dream sequence as opposed to a real film. Make the after-credits video be something like Stark waking up from the nightmare and saying “what a funky dream” or something like that.

[Mikey]

EVERYTHING is a product of its times. Yes, that could be more evident with characters like Black Panther; but even the Iron Man movies only really worked because we had a current modern analog (as far as it went) for the Vietnam War (and thematically, for the Cold War.) Likewise, each and every one of these characters has upsides and downsides.

Ant-man could make a great action-tinged investigative story, if audiences would give over seeing "Marvel" and expecting non-stop beat-em-up. Doctor Strange is one of my favorite old Marvel characters... but to give a movie any drama at all, he'd have to be watered down by some writer's fiat to the point of transparency. I thought the second Ghost Rider was a better adaptation, if more poorly produced - and I agree that both films would have been better if Nic Cage had to wash his hair those days. Again, though, it may sound strange but Ghost rider could make an excellent franchise if it was less "fry bad guys" and more atmospheric. I agree with what you say about Blade, but there it is - the movies weren't groundbreaking, or even deep, but I found them entertaining. Etc., etc.

In fact, as I'm writing this I'm thinking that there are plenty of comic franchises that would make better movies than any Marvel characters, if people were willing to take a flyer on making a comic-book movie that wasn't just all muscles and guns. Spawn, if done right, could have been great; Garth Ennis' Greatest Comic Book Character Ever^TM - John Constantine - could have been the center of a downright epic film (Constantine came close with its adaptation, but fell short in execution.) Moore's "Swamp Thing" could be a great movie if people who were ignorant of the comic would get past that whole idea that it's just a big green monster story. Ennis' "Bloody Mary" miniseries could be one of the great post-apocalyptic stories ever, and his "Hitman" franchise could be the greatest blend of action, pathos, and comedy to ever grace a comic-book movie.

All in all, there have been some hits, some failures, and some also-rans. I don't think, however, that the problem lies entirely with the production of each individual movie; instead, I think that the studios are (quite correctly) concerned that they will not get the widespread appeal and revenue that they need to show if they actually made movies that were *good* and highlighted the true feeling of each comic, rather than just continue to make the same mass-appeal but shallow and unimaginative "here's a different way for two people to beat the piss out of each other."

[Tyyr]

Isn't Ant-man confirmed for a movie? As bizzare as it seems I think that one is already confirmed to be made. Then again I could put up with Ant-Man if it means they brought in the Wasp in the same movie.

Black Panther - Batman by another name and going to raise some race issues. Marvel has shown an ability to handle character origins so they could probably tweak a lot of things out but at the end of the day he'd be another Black Widow/Hawkeye kind of character. I'd rather they just make a Black Widow movie.

Daredevil - A blind superhero who's superpower is that he can see... wait a minute... no seriously, his super hearing/echo location schtick is just him being able to see. He's not a big picture hero. Leave him in Hell's Kitchen and forget about him.

Doctor Strange/Ghost Rider - Ehhhh... I'm not overly wild about the supernatural. Doctor Strange is too powerful, so his entire movie will come down to them either depowering him, or continually asking why he doesn't just fix it in the first five minutes. To me the best chance to bring in the occult would have been to

just play the Mandarin straight, seriously how awesome would that have been and fed into the idea of Tony's post Avenger's PTSD over the supernatural and aliens,

and that ship has sailed. Ghost Rider, Nic Cage killed that role dead. I have a hard time imagining GR getting enough steam to be recast and rebooted.

Blade - Leave him be. While he's technically part of the Marvel canon universe I'd rather him just not intersect with the existing Avengers type story. On top of that, I really, really have a hard time seeing anyone but Wesley Snipes playing Blade and in the third movie, they killed Dracula. I don't doubt they can come up with some plot to give him someone to fight but when he's offed fucking Dracula it's going to be hard to top.

Punisher - Yes please, but go for the R. Punisher is not a PG-13 kind of character so just go for the R. After seeing Dredd I kind of want to see Carl Urban play Punisher. This is a good candidate for a movie, but no Avengers intersection.

Hulk - I dunno. I'm not a Hulk fan in general. The whole Jekyl and Hyde thing always seems to have trouble being followed through. I mean, even the Avengers had trouble with it. How do you reconcile Banner on the helicarrier and his episode vs. what happens at the end? Back that up with one flopped Hulk movie and one meh reboot and I think the Hulk is better off just left as part of the Avengers series.

Runaways - I actually like this idea. The problem is that there will be pressure to make it a kiddie movie full of whacky hijinks maybe mixed with some teen-emo bullshit when it could instead be a real serious high concept look at growing up with super powers especially in a post Avengers world.

[Jim]

Just a side... The Hulk's episode on the carrier vs the end of the movie... I believe that they went with the theory that if Banner changes by choice he can stay in (relative) control. If he changes purely though anger (NOT by choice) then he is not in control. On the carrier he did not change by choice which is why he looked with sorrow at Black Widow while he was changing. He was trying to fight it but could not stop it, therefore no control. In NYC he chose to change and was therefore in control.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I liked the first Thomas Jane Punisher movie, but yeah. Travolta wasn't the best choice for villain. Not the worst, mind you. And Ant-Man's either confirmed or damned close to it.

[Vic]

One can choose to get angry, and then there is tripwire anger. The difference between regular folks and Banner is reg' folks can choose to control it, Banner can't. Once the biological process starts it can't be controlled, it has to burn itself out.