Pacific Rim

[Teaos]

You could science it away by making their skin a non newtonian liquid like cornflower and water. The harder and faster something hits it the harder it works to stop it. So bullets and missles would totally bounce off while a fist traveling at only 30kph but weighing a fuckton would do damage.

[Atekimogus]

Interesting.
The technological solution of a Jaeger makes no sense. You want to build something big and powerful? Build a giant gun like that plasma weapon. Have it towed by helicopters like they do for the Jaegers and since Kaijus move slow, you may be able to target them and do damage.

Well it would make sense (somewhat) if they were used as mobile weapons plattform. What doesn't make sense is that they seem expected to melee with the kajo, with every ranged weaponry more of a backup, instead of vice versa. You would never ever want them come into melee-range and every force a Jaeger could ever muster in close combat, could just as well delivered as ranged payload.

Far more stupid is the whole wall, you don't want to build a wall....you want to surround your cities with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav

A fixed artillery defense position. Since the kaiju for some reason go for cities, this would be viable. And have the jaegers only catch stray kaijus.

[McAvoy]

They go for cities because they are made to kill humans.

Giant guns like that may do damage but the firing rate is slow.

[Tyyr]

You could science it away by making their skin a non newtonian liquid like cornflower and water. The harder and faster something hits it the harder it works to stop it. So bullets and missles would totally bounce off while a fist traveling at only 30kph but weighing a fuckton would do damage.

From a structural standpoint you'd want the non-newtonian fluid to be a layer under their skin but I do like that idea.

[Atekimogus]

So...instead of building a robot you would just build a.........slow flying missle? Maybe one with rocket breaks to slow down before impact? Maybe not filled with explosive but acid or some-such? Or a burning agent? You know.....kill it with fire?

So many possibilites.........since the movie takes itself seriously, they should really have sat down on a brainstorming session, come up with most of the more sensible ideas and make a short, few sentences only, explanation why all those things don't work in the intro.

[Atekimogus]

They go for cities because they are made to kill humans.

Giant guns like that may do damage but the firing rate is slow.

The Gustav was built in WW2. I daresay we nowadays would manage to enhance the rate of fire considerably. (That, and it probably would be more of a railgun design and less of a conventional gun.)

[Tyyr]

So...instead of building a robot you would just build a.........slow flying missle? Maybe one with rocket breaks to slow down before impact? Maybe not filled with explosive but acid or some-such? Or a burning agent? You know.....kill it with fire?

F=MA is not your friend in that situation. Since you've more or less got a cap on the velocity the only way to do damage would be increased mass. Your average missile isn't that heavy and is one shot.

Acid doesn't work how it does in the movies. Unless you have access to tens of thousands of gallons of nearly pure sulfuric acid you're not going to make a dent. The amount you could put in a missile would corrode a small area and that's about it. You'd need to have to submerge the Kaiju in it for days to have any appreciable affect and the biggest problem with fighting them rears it's head again, the damn things are 25,000 to 40,000 tons of flesh.

Fire, again, how do you keep it burning long enough to do the damage?

So many possibilites.........since the movie takes itself seriously, they should really have sat down on a brainstorming session, come up with most of the more sensible ideas and make a short, few sentences only, explanation why all those things don't work in the intro.

Again, what I said earlier is in full effect. This is a movie about giant monsters fighting giant robots. That's the premise. Other ideas don't work because it's not a Giant Robots vs. the sane and practical approach to fighting them movie. It's about two people piloting a mech the size of a large office building rocket punching godzilla in the face. You either accept the premise or you don't. There's no need to explain why giant robots are the best solution, they are because if they aren't then you have no movie.

[Atekimogus]

F=MA is not your friend in that situation. Since you've more or less got a cap on the velocity the only way to do damage would be increased mass. Your average missile isn't that heavy and is one shot.

Acid doesn't work how it does in the movies. Unless you have access to tens of thousands of gallons of nearly pure sulfuric acid you're not going to make a dent. The amount you could put in a missile would corrode a small area and that's about it. You'd need to have to submerge the Kaiju in it for days to have any appreciable affect and the biggest problem with fighting them rears it's head again, the damn things are 25,000 to 40,000 tons of flesh.

Fire, again, how do you keep it burning long enough to do the damage?

Well you don't NEED to fire a missle at it, just a small fleet of even WW2 area planes used normally for aerial firefighting should do the trick.

And 40000 tons of flesh it might be...but you don't need to disolve ALL of it before the thing starts to slow down and die. As for killing it with fire, here a quote on incendiary devices:

The most effective formula is 25% aluminium and 75% iron oxide. It takes very high temperatures to ignite, but when alight, it can burn through solid steel

Now I guess that is enough to fataly burn even the most resilient kaiju sooner or later.

Again, what I said earlier is in full effect. This is a movie about giant monsters fighting giant robots. That's the premise. Other ideas don't work because it's not a Giant Robots vs. the sane and practical approach to fighting them movie. It's about two people piloting a mech the size of a large office building rocket punching godzilla in the face. You either accept the premise or you don't. There's no need to explain why giant robots are the best solution, they are because if they aren't then you have no movie.

Of course and you made a few very good points as to why conventional weapons for some reason or another wouldn't work in this particular universe. It would have helped my immersion enourmously if they'd made that a bit more clear in the movie. Expand the very short intro a bit, show how they try different methods taking those things down and how they finally arrive at "Hey, let's just build a giant robot instead".

And I don't think it is too much to ask to get this cleared up in the movie, since as you correctly stated the whole premise of the movie hinges on this. So simply be told to swallow it isn't good enough imho.

[McAvoy]

Acid takes time. A lot of it and is easily diluted by water. Acid isn't like that of the xenomorphs.

Come to think about it... an army of xenomorphs climbing a Kaiju sounds cool.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Yeah, giant robots fight giant monsters. That's what I came for. That's what I got, with a side-order of awesome.

[Atekimogus]

I like that idea. But instead of xenomorphs just use an army of small robots with drills, blow torches etc. digging towards and destroying the major nerve centres, brain etc.

I am sure this would work 60 percent of the time, every time.

[Jim]

Mother-in-laws!!!

[Tyyr]

Well you don't NEED to fire a missle at it, just a small fleet of even WW2 area planes used normally for aerial firefighting should do the trick.

Except for so many problems with that idea.

1) There actually aren't that many firefighting aircraft around. It's a rather specialized task.
2) None of them are adapted to carrying significant quantities of acid. In fact given the concentration of acid you'd need they'd all see their tanker equipment destroyed in short order.
3) Acid doesn't work like it does in the movies. Splashing acid on something results in some ugly burns. Take a look at people who are victims of acid attacks. However even after getting a significant quantity of acid thrown in their face their head didn't melt off. Same issue here, you're talking about splashing acid on this beast which at best is going to burn it's outer layers of skin and really piss it off. You're not going to be able to immerse the Kaiju in acid in the way you'd need to in order to burn through its skin and get at it's internal organs to kill it like you need to.

And 40000 tons of flesh it might be...but you don't need to disolve ALL of it before the thing starts to slow down and die.

No, but you do have to get through it's skin which on a 100m tall, 35,0000ton creature is going to be quite thick.

As for killing it with fire, here a quote on incendiary devices:

Yes, thermite. Which isn't really good at killing people. It sets things on fire, but not people. You see thermite needs to be properly mixed and brought to extremely high temperatures to ignite. It's not something you can bomb a Kaiju with. If you were to scatter it the reaction halts almost instantly. That's why thermite is used in demolition charges or incendiary bombs for attacks on fixed targets. The canister holding the thermite keeps it contained so that the reaction can progress. Dropping a thermite cluster bomb (which you'd have to custom make since we don't have any, burning down entire cities is kind of a WWII thing) would result in pelting the Kaiju with a lot of really hot thermos sized cylinders which won't do much. Since none of them will hit and stick to the target. You need something that will burn and stick and good old US innovation found that out a while ago. NAPALM! Jellied gasoline. The problem with a "KILL IT WITH FIRE!" solution comes right back down to simple fucking mass. This is a 40,000 ton creature. It's skin is on the order of a six inches thick or more. Yes, you can burn a portion of it, but getting deep penetrating burns, the kind that are going to kill it? There's not enough napalm in the US inventory (seriously, I'm not even sure if we keep any significant quantity on hand) to burn a Kaiju to death. The real problem is sort of the old hitting a zombie with a flamethrower issue. All you've done is created a flaming zombie adding firey burning death to your list off issues beyond the undead/Skyscraper-fucking-monster issues you had before.

Of course and you made a few very good points as to why conventional weapons for some reason or another wouldn't work in this particular universe. It would have helped my immersion enourmously if they'd made that a bit more clear in the movie. Expand the very short intro a bit, show how they try different methods taking those things down and how they finally arrive at "Hey, let's just build a giant robot instead".

You're missing the point. It's a Kaiju/Giant Mecha movie. You don't need to state that the giant monster isn't killable by regular means except giant robot. It's understood. It's like complaining that a Batman movie doesn't detail out why Bruce Wayne not just giving the GPD a billion dollars isn't a better solution than a leather fetish and vigilante justice. It's a Batman movie so it just is.

[Atekimogus]

This is a 40,000 ton creature. It's skin is on the order of a six inches thick or more. Yes, you can burn a portion of it, but getting deep penetrating burns, the kind that are going to kill it? There's not enough napalm in the US inventory (seriously, I'm not even sure if we keep any significant quantity on hand) to burn a Kaiju to death. The real problem is sort of the old hitting a zombie with a flamethrower issue. All you've done is created a flaming zombie adding firey burning death to your list off issues beyond the undead/Skyscraper-fucking-monster issues you had before.

True, but again, you don't need to completely incineraty all 40000tons of it. Depending on biology, just a large area of 3rd degree burns should be enough to kill it. At the very least you could blind it without ever coming in contact with it.

But as I already said, I give you that this might prove an impractical solution.

You're missing the point. It's a Kaiju/Giant Mecha movie. You don't need to state that the giant monster isn't killable by regular means except giant robot. It's understood. It's like complaining that a Batman movie doesn't detail out why Bruce Wayne not just giving the GPD a billion dollars isn't a better solution than a leather fetish and vigilante justice. It's a Batman movie so it just is.

I disagree. No matter what Batman we are talking about, we are ALWAYS given a fuckton of explanation/background as to why simply giving the GDP a billion of dollars is probably not going to be an acceptable solution for him. That is why nobody really questions this, since everyone understands why he does what he does.

If his motivations and background would never have been explained, yes than the reaction would be the same I have for this movie, why the heck is he becoming a vigilante? Makes no sense!

Therefore, at least a BIT of a background, as to WHY they turned to building robots would have been nice imho. Why the heck are they building robots with so many other seemingly more practical solutions? Makes no sense! Ah, yes...becauseof x y z reasons.

Since they are creating an unique universe, I shouldn't be expected to fill in those blanks, anymore than I should be expected to come up with a background story for Bruce Wayne, to make sense of his action in the present as caped vigilante, wouldn't you say?

[Tyyr]

Yes, you don't have to completely burn it to ash, but the amount of creature you have to seriously burn to kill it, assuming it's rather like a normal animal, is immense and because of the thickness of it's hide would require a tremendous, and long enduring fire that has the potential to do as much or more damage than the Kaiju. It's like trying to kill a guy by burning him with a Bic lighter. I'm sure you can do it if you're determined enough but it's not going to happen anytime soon.

I disagree. No matter what Batman we are talking about, we are ALWAYS given a fuckton of explanation/background as to why simply giving the GDP a billion of dollars is probably not going to be an acceptable solution for him. That is why nobody really questions this, since everyone understands why he does what he does.

The shit? The closest we've ever been given as to why simply cutting the GPD a check wouldn't help more than facepunching criminals is "they're really corrupt." That's it. The entire reason why dressing up like Batman is a rational solution to the problem of a city wide crime epidemic is three words, four if don't count the contraction. Even Batman's motivations aren't gone into deeply. "His parents were killed in front of him by a criminal." That's his motivation. Four words to handwave away why the billionaire playboy can't just throw money at the problem, and nine for why he'd rather dress up in leather and do it himself. We never get into the nitty gritty of why any one of a thousand plans would work better than dressing up like a bat and punching criminals.

And by superhero standards Batman is complicated. Superman, Wonder Woman, the Hulk, Thor? These are not deeply involved, backstory laden, explanation centered kinds of stories. AND THAT'S OK. Part of the premise of Superhero movies is that lone crazies in spandex are a more effective solution for the world's problem than anything else. Just like in Kaiju vs. Giant Mecha movies it is understood by virtue of the kind of movie that it is that the giant robots are the best solution. Wasting time explaining that is just that, wasting time. By buying a ticket to see the movie you have acknowledged that you accept the premise of the kind of movie it is. Same with a superhero movie. I don't watch Iron Man and then count it against the movie when it doesn't explain why Tony doesn't just start building Arc Reactors and end the world's energy crisis tomorrow, or use his amazing technical skill for other endeavors. No, I get that it's a movie about Iron Man.

Therefore, at least a BIT of a background, as to WHY they turned to building robots would have been nice imho. Why the heck are they building robots with so many other seemingly more practical solutions? Makes no sense! Ah, yes...because of x y z reasons.

Except that you get it. Just as much as Batman gets. During the initial Trespasser attack they talk about how even throwing the military might of the US at it it still took them six days and three destroyed cities to kill it. "They needed a new weapon," is a line right out of the intro immediately following this. And then they kick into the Jaeger building montage. You've got as much backstory as Batman ever got in any movie and it indicates that the country with the biggest, most capable military in the world still needed nearly a week to kill a category 1 Kaiju. That they needed a new weapon and giant robots were it and after giant robots we go from six days and three leveled cities to beating their asses right off the bat and winning.

Since they are creating an unique universe, I shouldn't be expected to fill in those blanks, anymore than I should be expected to come up with a background story for Bruce Wayne, to make sense of his action in the present as caped vigilante, wouldn't you say?

You're giving the Batman franchise WAY more credit than it deserves for giving Bruce Wayne backstory. Second, as much backstory as he gets Pacific Rim gets in that opening montage. Third, it's implicit in the franchise that giant robots are the answer and spending five or ten minutes of run time going over why nukes at the portal, burning, dipping it in acid, trouble with effectively covering the coastlines to protect them, it's all wasted time because... GIANT FUCKING ROBOTS.

The Force, lynch pin of the Star Wars saga... "It's an energy field created by life that binds us together. There aren't a lot of people who can use it." Yeah, watch Episode 1 again, not a lot of info on the force, but that dwarfs what the lightsaber gets. "A more elegant weapon for a more civilized age." Want to start talking about the many, many ways a lightsaber is a stupid weapon to use even with the force? Does that make the movie any less enjoyable? Does it make the world being built any less rich real and fun? No, because when you see the movie poster with a guy holding a laser sword in the air and space ships flying around with the robots and the black kabuki helmet in the background you sort of pick up on the kind of movie you're going to see.

When you're making a film in a very particular genre there are conventions that go along with it that do not need to be explained. They are implicit in watching that genre. Unless you're going to be messing with those conventions then there's no reason to get into them and explain them, the audience is already on board by virtue of having bought the ticket.

I'm not saying this isn't a fun bit of mental gymnastics, it really is, but is it something to hold against the movie? I don't think so.