Beers

[Angharrad]

This would be a bad moment to mention being nigh on tea-total* wouldn't it...

*for our American friend's an abstainer from alcohol.

In America we call that the designated driver.

[Angharrad]

The great thing too is NJ a couple of years back basically opened the floodgates for micro breweries to basically be on every corner (at least seems like it) in the state.

Hell Riverhorse moved from Lambertville to Ewing, my hometown. Rinn Duinn opened up in Freehold which is a good half hour away from me.

I also go Triumph in Princeton who makes an amazing Jewish Rye Ale that tastes straight up like Jewish Rye Bread. It's awesome.

Not too many breweries in NYC, but lots of places to get craft beer. Of course if I go someplace that doesn't have a great selection my go-to beer is Brooklyn Lager.

[Mikey]

This would be a bad moment to mention being nigh on tea-total* wouldn't it...

*for our American friend's an abstainer from alcohol.

Yes, I don't think "tee-totaller" is an exclusively British usage.

I'm... terrible at at [it]

Spilled a lot, did you?

I don't really enjoy the taste or sensation of alcohol and the effect it has on us.

That, to me, sounds like a fairly solid reason not to drink.

My sister lives near DC... if you can just go to all of those places (except Flying Fish, I have seen their bottles) and get bottles of their stouts and then next time I am visiting we could meet in somewhere like Newark DE and I could get all of that from you... that would be greeaaat... thanks.

Maybe... if you promise NOT to send any Iron City to Jersey.

[McAvoy]

The great thing too is NJ a couple of years back basically opened the floodgates for micro breweries to basically be on every corner (at least seems like it) in the state.

Hell Riverhorse moved from Lambertville to Ewing, my hometown. Rinn Duinn opened up in Freehold which is a good half hour away from me.

I also go Triumph in Princeton who makes an amazing Jewish Rye Ale that tastes straight up like Jewish Rye Bread. It's awesome.

Not too many breweries in NYC, but lots of places to get craft beer. Of course if I go someplace that doesn't have a great selection my go-to beer is Brooklyn Lager.

There is a chain that I know of in NYC. Harvest something. Initially the beer was good but then I went there back in May and it was just bland.

[Mikey]

Ian - now I remember the name of the scotch for which I developed a taste at a certain upscale taproom. It was Laphroaig, and IIRC it was their fairly-exclusive quarter-cask single malt.

OK, so thanks in large part to this conversation I finally went down to Rinn Duin this evening to buy a six of their Irish-style red. I didn't have great expectations, as I'm more a drinker of bottom-fermented brews (beers) than top-fermented (ales,) of which most British styles are examples. However... I did end up leaving with my six-pack, 45 minutes and three drafts later. Not only are the people working the taproom just the best, but the beers are phenomenal. Their Scottish 70 ("Trinity") is a peaty, malty treat - hoppier than most heavier styles, but I can't wait to get a growler of it when the nights turn cold - their brown ale ("Sandpiper") is as good as any, and their seasonal autumn brew ("Ichabod's Return") is a Belgian-style dubbel (a departure for them) which sips easier than any porter I've had yet still has an understated hops presence, full body, and an autumnal finish of (sorry Ian) currants and raisins. I foresee myself spending plenty of time in that taproom. Also have to wait until December until their next seasonal offering - an Imperial stout, and have to go back to try their saison before the warm weather ends.

Question for our experienced beer drinkers: is there really a benefit to be realized from paying a little more and getting growlers instead of bottled beer?

*EDIT* Get this - there's a brewpub in my town that offers, in addition to its own brews, an actual Danish braggot. Sure, it's $18 a glass, but if they didn't have it I might have gone my entire life without drinking a braggot.

[McAvoy]

A growler is filled through a keg and because of the way it's filled will not stand long (up to a month). Whereas a bottled beer can last longer.

Taste Wise they differ slightly. Not as much as between a can and a bottle for example.

Also growlers are best used for beer that isn't bottled as in not being able to buy it in stores. Triumph for example.

Places like Rinn Duinn which have bottled and kegs I wouldn't bother.

Maybe if you collect the growlers themselves.

[IanKennedy]

Ian - now I remember the name of the scotch for which I developed a taste at a certain upscale taproom. It was Laphroaig, and IIRC it was their fairly-exclusive quarter-cask single malt.

Laphroaig is too peaty for me. I either like smooth or fiery. For smooth MacAllan. For fiery I like Talisker.

[Mikey]

I sort of like the earthiness, though it's a feature that I dislike in foods. I find a single drop of water cuts it considerably.

[Jim]

Ian - now I remember the name of the scotch for which I developed a taste at a certain upscale taproom. It was Laphroaig, and IIRC it was their fairly-exclusive quarter-cask single malt.

OK, so thanks in large part to this conversation I finally went down to Rinn Duin this evening to buy a six of their Irish-style red. I didn't have great expectations, as I'm more a drinker of bottom-fermented brews (beers) than top-fermented (ales,) of which most British styles are examples. However... I did end up leaving with my six-pack, 45 minutes and three drafts later. Not only are the people working the taproom just the best, but the beers are phenomenal. Their Scottish 70 ("Trinity") is a peaty, malty treat - hoppier than most heavier styles, but I can't wait to get a growler of it when the nights turn cold - their brown ale ("Sandpiper") is as good as any, and their seasonal autumn brew ("Ichabod's Return") is a Belgian-style dubbel (a departure for them) which sips easier than any porter I've had yet still has an understated hops presence, full body, and an autumnal finish of (sorry Ian) currants and raisins. I foresee myself spending plenty of time in that taproom. Also have to wait until December until their next seasonal offering - an Imperial stout, and have to go back to try their saison before the warm weather ends.

Question for our experienced beer drinkers: is there really a benefit to be realized from paying a little more and getting growlers instead of bottled beer?

*EDIT* Get this - there's a brewpub in my town that offers, in addition to its own brews, an actual Danish braggot. Sure, it's $18 a glass, but if they didn't have it I might have gone my entire life without drinking a braggot.

I think that you meant lagers/ales, not beers/ales.

A growler (fill) should cost less than 64 ounces of the same beer in bottles. In your calculation are you including the price of buying a new growler glass bottle as well? For the normal screw top growlers, most of the brew-pubs and microbreweries around me charge between $3-$5 for the bottle itself. I have seen some bars get a little crazy with the bottle though. One place near DC wanted $20 just for the bottle. The fancy flip-top growlers with handles and such can get a bit expensive... but they are no better that the screw top. If they try to tell you that the flip top seal is better for keeping the beer fresh, blah blah blah... they are just trying to get you money.

The growler holds 4 pints, and a fill tends to cost about what the place would charge for 3 pints if you were drinking there. Prices for fills can get a little high when you are talking about bigger beers that tend to be served in 10 ounce snifters and such. But, a fill should cost less than a 6 pack of the same beer at a store. If not, your bar is screwing you.

In PA, places do not have to require that you use one of their growlers and deny filling what you bring in. (May vary in other states) If I buy a growler at one place I can legally go to any other brewery, brew-pub or bar (that offer growlers) and get that original growler filled. If a place tells you that it is their policy, then you can't do anything about it. If they tell you that it is illegal they are just lying and trying to get more $ from you (buy the growler and skip the tip and give them they 2 finger salute).

The vast majority of craft drinkers will tell you that a brew on tap tastes "better" than the same from a bottle/can. There will be mild differences, but taste is subjective so the difference might be in that they thing that you liked is lessened and the thing that you wished was not in the flavor profile is accentuated... which means that you would prefer the bottle/can version. I tend to fine drafts to be more flavorful than bottled/canned. Another thing to consider is where you are getting the draft from and how often they clean their lines. (There is a bar in the Southside (Pittsburgh) that has a large and varied draft list... but they have questionable line cleaning schedules, so their stuff sometimes is not as good as it should be.)

[Mikey]

I think that you meant lagers/ales, not beers/ales.

Nope. While "beer" is used as a catch-all term, it is also used for bottom-fermented brews as opposed to top-fermented ones (ales.) "Lager" technically refers historically to bottom-fermented brews (beers) which are stored in lower-than-room-temperature conditions for anywhere from a month (typical lagers) to 6 months (the most typical Oktoberfest beer is called "maibock," because it gets finished brewing in May and is lagered until September or October.) In ages past, beers were typically lagered in a cave, though today cold storage, a basement, or a garage often serves as well. Because the process marries flavors together and mellows hoppiness, a representative flavor profile became associated with the term "lager..." then a representative style of beer. However, even in that light a lager is only type of bottom-fermented beer. Because ale-brewing often allows hoppiness, brewing spices, and even alcohol dryness to stand out, ales do not benefit from the lagering process in the same way as beers. This is why a dubbel or porter can be black as midnight but as easy to drink as anything, while an English-style brown ale may be lighter but have a far more assertive and bracing bitterness and hoppy flavor.

As to the rest... yes, I know the difference in taste between draft beer and bottled beer (I won't mention canned beer, as that is a sin against man and nature.) Not being experienced with growlers, though, I didn't know if that difference persisted once the beer was tapped off and stored in someon'es fridge in a growler. As far as price, the only comparison I have right now is the place I described yesterday. They only bottle a couple of their beers, so growlers are the only to-go option for some of them; for the ones that are bottled, they charge $9 for a six-pack (72 fl. oz. total) and $12 to fill a growler (64 fl. oz. total,) plus the purchase of the growler for three bucks.

Anyway, I got the Rinn Duin St John's Irish Red with which to watch the football games last nightand today. A little too much toward the bitterness of a brown ale to be one of my favorites, but the roasted barley that is the defining characteristic of an Irish red was well pronounced and pleasant. I think drinking it out of a mug or pint would have been a wiser choice than out of a pilsner glass, though.

[Jim]

Many more craft brewers are moving towards cans instead of bottles. You might need to rethink your 1970's opinion on cans.

I would say experiment. Pour a glass from a bottle and pour a glass from the growler and taste test.

To the other thing... you are the first person that I have ever heard go with the beer/ale thing as opposed to lager/ale. I think that maybe you are getting a little too specific with old term references, or put a little too much stock into an article. In modern brewing/times it is beer is either a lager or an ale, not a brew is either beer of an ale.

[McAvoy]

Many more craft brewers are moving towards cans instead of bottles. You might need to rethink your 1970's opinion on cans.

I would say experiment. Pour a glass from a bottle and pour a glass from the growler and taste test.

To the other thing... you are the first person that I have ever heard go with the beer/ale thing as opposed to lager/ale. I think that maybe you are getting a little too specific with old term references, or put a little too much stock into an article. In modern brewing/times it is beer is either a lager or an ale, not a brew is either beer of an ale.

As far as cans, they do it because of cost. Not because of taste. Some do it on purpose because it made them unique as being one of only a few to do cans.

It's not a 1970's thing but a 2000's thing that is widely accepted even among the common beer drinking folk that bottle veer is superior and can beer is meant for cheapness.

Got to remember craft beer and micro breweries was a direct result of the incredibly dissatisfaction of the beer left operating by the end of the 1970's as well.

[Jim]

It is cheaper but can be more labor intensive, it is better for recycling and (for sales) people can take them to places glass isn't allowed (parks, etc). The main craft beer around here is Oscar Blues. However, a few others are going to cans; North Country, Full Pint, Rivertowne. 21st Amendment and Maui are a few other nationals that come to mind. The cans themselves are not the same as they were in days of yore. If you drink from the container (which if you think that canning is a sin, drinking a craft from the bottle/can should be even more so) you will get a bit of difference due to your lips/tongue touching the glass/metal, but if you pour it into a glass you will not tell the difference.

[Mikey]

You might need to rethink your 1970's opinion on cans.

It's not an opinion based on trend, it's an opinion based on experience; in my experience - and to my personal perception - canned beer does not taste as good as bottled beer, which is in turn (though by a great deal less of a margin) inferior to draft.

To the other thing... you are the first person that I have ever heard go with the beer/ale thing as opposed to lager/ale. I think that maybe you are getting a little too specific with old term references, or put a little too much stock into an article. In modern brewing/times it is beer is either a lager or an ale, not a brew is either beer of an ale.

That makes no sense. Pilsners are bottom-fermented, as are porters, bocks, et. al., but clearly none of them are lagers. A lager is a type of beer, in the same way as an IPA or an Irish red are types of ales. I have never heard anyone use the term "lager" as a noun and have it refer to anything other than a particular style of bottom-fermented beer typified by a pale, amber, or dark bottom-fermented barley-malt-based brew that is cold-stored after brewing and before distribution.

[Jim]

Saying the two types of beer are beer and ale makes no sense. But to be totally honest... I really don't care. That is one of the reasons that I do not homebrew even though many of my friends do. I do not care how it is made or what it is called, I just care about the taste. I like to try (nearly) everything that I have never had before just to see how it tastes and feels. Drink what you like and let others drink what they like.

However... anyone ever have the Mamma Mia Pizza beer? Far and away the WORST beer that I have ever tasted. I am not willing to say the worst "thing" ever, but I will say the worst beer.