Starship = Submarine

Enterprise
Don-Okay
Petty officer second class
Petty officer second class
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Don-Okay »

I don't buy the fact ships are made spacey for crew moral. Star fleet is a military, the officers and crew should be able to live with greatly diminished space. Given holodecks and food replicators their living standards are already much higher than ours.
User avatar
kostmayer
Captain
Captain
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:08 am

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by kostmayer »

I agree, thought Federation citizens are probably used to a higher standard of living than us.
"You ain't gonna get off down the trail a mile or two, and go missing your wife or something, like our last cook done, are you?"
"My wife is in hell, where I sent her. She could make good biscuits, but her behavior was terrible."
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Captain Seafort »

Don-Okay wrote:Star fleet is a military, the officers and crew should be able to live with greatly diminished space.
"Should be" being the operative phrase. The central problem with most Fed ships is that they try and combine multiple mutually exclusive roles into a single hull - science vessel, interstellar luxury liner and warship. Its only with the later models like the Defiant and Nova classes that they start to specialise (or rather, are forced to specialise by the Borg and Dominion).
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Don-Okay
Petty officer second class
Petty officer second class
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Don-Okay »

So a dedicated Ambassadorial class?
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Captain Seafort »

Most of them aren't a dedicated anything - they're a jack of all trades and master of none.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Graham Kennedy »

A person from 300 years ago would think today's Navy ship accommodation was like a hotel. What would you say if he told you that the ships were not real Navy ships because of the way the crews lived compared to him?
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
Don-Okay
Petty officer second class
Petty officer second class
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Don-Okay »

From what I have seen of accommodations in modern naval subs they are not a hell of a lot better than old naval standards.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Captain Seafort »

GrahamKennedy wrote:A person from 300 years ago would think today's Navy ship accommodation was like a hotel. What would you say if he told you that the ships were not real Navy ships because of the way the crews lived compared to him?
I'd point out that the personal living and storage space available to an individual hadn't changed much, if at all. The main difference is the addition of dedicated cleaning and eating facilities, which facilitate hygiene and therefore drastically reduce non-combat casualties.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Oh? I've seen the amount of living space people had on old ships. It was FAR less than people get today.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
Don-Okay
Petty officer second class
Petty officer second class
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 10:51 pm

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Don-Okay »

Depends on which old ship and which modern ship you are comparing.
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Tyyr »

Ummm, back in the old days you had a hammock, that you had to roll up and stow. Today at least you have a cabin you share with a few guys, a permanent bed, some storage space, and you weren't sleeping on top of a cannon. The closets you could get to those old style are on a sub and our guys today still have it better on subs than they did on big ships of the line back in the day.
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by McAvoy »

Wait.... military ships or luxury ships?

Because I sleeper on a steel bed 3 feet wide by 6 six feet long with a locker underneath about a foot deep in a bunk three deep. Not to mention this was with 200 other guys. I never had a cabin. Only high ranking officers get wardrooms.

Up until WW2 sailors slept in hammocks in the Galley where they ate and slept.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Captain Seafort »

McAvoy wrote:Because I sleeper on a steel bed 3 feet wide by 6 six feet long with a locker underneath about a foot deep in a bunk three deep. Not to mention this was with 200 other guys. I never had a cabin. Only high ranking officers get wardrooms.
Were they arranged such that you'd have a six-man cabin if you defined "cabin" as "two stacks of bunks plus a six-foot by three-foot deck space with a curtain at each end"? I suspect that's the sort of arrangement Tyyr's thinking of. Also, I thought the bunks were narrower than you describe, so there's been a slight increase in personal space since the days of sail.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Tyyr »

Not meaning cabin as in you have your own. Cabin as there is a designated room where several men sleep which is not also part of their action station.
User avatar
Teaos
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15368
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: Behind you!

Re: Starship = Submarine

Post by Teaos »

It is my understanding that some models of Subs have people literally sleeping in anywhere there is 6 feet of horizontal space.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Post Reply