Human power in ENT timeline

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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

Post by Mikey »

McAvoy wrote:...in a short amount of time. Which is why ENT should have showed Earth as being this new rising power. Perhaps a powerful military kind of like how B5's Earth was shown. Powerful and perhaps not as advanced as the other powers but at least with a clout other races could listen to. ENT just showed that humans were some sort of backwater planet with a token ship or two.
Exactly... a backwater which somehow, without precedent, was able to take on and defeat an experienced spacefaring power.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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Mikey wrote:Exactly... a backwater which somehow, without precedent, was able to take on and defeat an experienced spacefaring power.
True. Just as it would be stupid to think that a sprog of a country that everyone ignored could beat the one that wrote the book on oceanic empire-building. Utterly stupid.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

Post by McAvoy »

Bad example. In that war, the US's navy was for all intents and purposes superior to the Spanish.

I think the Revolutionary War might be a better example.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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McAvoy wrote:Bad example. In that war, the US's navy was for all intents and purposes superior to the Spanish.
Exactly. It was "a backwater which somehow, without precedent, was able to take on and defeat an experienced [naval] power". The fact that the Spanish were badly outclassed doesn't change the fact that the US was the new kid on the block and the Spanish empire was the oldest European colonial power,
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

Post by McAvoy »

The US wasn't a backwater during that time. I can see where you are going with it though. I guess you could say the Japanese-Russian war in 1904-5 is a better example.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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It is very hard to believe that the United Earth we saw on ENT was able to defeat the RSE we saw on ENT.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:Exactly... a backwater which somehow, without precedent, was able to take on and defeat an experienced spacefaring power.
True. Just as it would be stupid to think that a sprog of a country that everyone ignored could beat the one that wrote the book on oceanic empire-building. Utterly stupid.
There's an important distinction. In the time period of your example, there's no major difference in tech level of the main vessels of the war as there is in the Earth-Romulan War; i.e., an American barquentine was technologically the exact equivalent of a Spanish barquentine (e.g.) An American demi-cannon or culverin was effectually the same as their Spanish equivalents. Propulsion technology was identical, as was the materials technology. See where I'm going?
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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Mikey wrote:Propulsion technology was identical, as was the materials technology. See where I'm going?
That Trek tech is obviously so stagnant that such a new power as Earth can catch up to the local standard within a century. Not surprising, given the evidence of Relics and assuming Vulcan assistance.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

Post by Mikey »

Within a century, perhaps (though your analysis seems to be based more on the TNG+ era.) Immediately upon encountering a more advanced tech? I don't think so.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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Mikey wrote:Immediately upon encountering a more advanced tech? I don't think so.
Of course not. What's that got to do with the Romulan War? It was a century after First Contact, so Earth would have had time to get up to speed.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:Immediately upon encountering a more advanced tech? I don't think so.
Of course not. What's that got to do with the Romulan War? It was a century after First Contact, so Earth would have had time to get up to speed.
But they didn't
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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SomosFuga wrote:
Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:Immediately upon encountering a more advanced tech? I don't think so.
Of course not. What's that got to do with the Romulan War? It was a century after First Contact, so Earth would have had time to get up to speed.
But they didn't

We have already known before ENT that humans caught up with the rest of the older spacefaring races very quickly. We just didn't know how if humans did it on their own or Vulcans or whoever helped out or combination of everything. The way ENT shows humans practically had to do it on their own even with Vulcans curbing them wherever and whenever they could.

I just wished that ENT actually showed that the humans were actually doing something like expanding rapidly. NX-01 fixing disputes because humans colonized another power's planet or something.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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McAvoy wrote:We have already known before ENT that humans caught up with the rest of the older spacefaring races very quickly. We just didn't know how if humans did it on their own or Vulcans or whoever helped out or combination of everything. The way ENT shows humans practically had to do it on their own even with Vulcans curbing them wherever and whenever they could.

I just wished that ENT actually showed that the humans were actually doing something like expanding rapidly. NX-01 fixing disputes because humans colonized another power's planet or something.
I'd like to see ENT showing a darker side of Earth as well as the exploration angle. By meeting new races without Vulcan interference, Earth can trade for advanced technologies and apply them directly, rather than trading through the Vulcans, or begging them for technology.

Combine that with freighters popping around to different Earth colonies, and comments about different tech items being delivered (no more than 1 per episode, if that much). So if someone goes through the different episodes, they can put together a large amount of industrial goods being shipped to various Earth colonies, building them up over time.

Combine that with comments from one engineer on Earth about Starfleet working them 24/7 to reverse engineer alien tech, and you get the idea that Starfleet is doing its best to develop its on tech base, and get the results out to the colonies so they can be improved as well.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

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and acquire new tech not necessarily imply to trade fot it, they could even steal it, either after a combat or through espionage.
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Re: Human power in ENT timeline

Post by sunnyside »

I think it was implied that humans had expanded to some degree prior to the events of Enterprise.

However NX-01 was out there to explore and make new first contacts, meaning I'd have expected them to head off towards unexplored space as opposed to turning around and sorting some out on the moon, or perhaps stopping by Hawaii to solve a murder. There are other authorities and ships that can handle that.

So we don't see them encountering a ton of human outposts not because there aren't any anywhere, but because there isn't one everywhere.

As far as the Earth-Romulan war. We know that Vulanans, Tellarites, and Andorans fighting, with Humans perhaps acting more as the glue than supplying most of the combat ships.

That also might just be what "we" call it. It's pretty typical for wars to have different names in different places.
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