Enterprise-which timeline?

Enterprise

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Tsukiyumi » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:57 pm

I also liked seasons 3 and 4. Especially 4, but at least 3 had a plot arc.
There is only one way of avoiding the war – that is the overthrow of this society. However, as we are too weak for this task, the war is inevitable. -L. Trotsky, 1939
User avatar
Tsukiyumi
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 21664
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:38 pm
Location: Forward Torpedo Tube Twenty. Help!

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:11 pm

Season 3 was a big improvement, and 4 improved hugely on that, I thought.

I don't go for attempts to de-canonise Enterprise or make it part of the alt universe, though. Seems rather arbitrary and silly to me. Plus it's very clearly not what the people making the show have in mind.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:15 pm

I'm pretty sure that making the Kelvin part of a completely separate universe prior to Nero's arrival wasn't what Abrams had in mind either. Nonetheless, that's what the film depicts.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.

Across the Universe - Chapter 2 now up
User avatar
Captain Seafort
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14943
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Mark » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:29 pm

And as always, its left up to us to explain ;)
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
User avatar
Mark
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 17671
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:49 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:33 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:I'm pretty sure that making the Kelvin part of a completely separate universe prior to Nero's arrival wasn't what Abrams had in mind either. Nonetheless, that's what the film depicts.

No, it doesn't. That's what some people are interpreting it to depict.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Lt. Staplic » Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:39 pm

I see three Seperate Timelines arriving:

1. Geneverse - The Trek from TOS, TNG, VOY, and DS9 as well as all of the movies until Nemisis
2. Gap Verse - The Universe Created by the events of First Contact that lead to a more advanced Earth and Federation. Leads to Enterprise and the nKelvin, possible that it is only in this Universe that Romulus is destroyed.
3. Abramsverse - Alternate Unvierse Created by the appearance of the Narada and destruction of the Kelvin.

While It would be convenient for this to be the case, Graham is right that this isn't what was meant. For all the flaws in executions, certain advancements and differences in size and power were only there because of OOC reasons.
Check this out, Let me know if your interested: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=7385
Lt. Staplic
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 8050
Joined: Sat Sep 06, 2008 2:25 am
Location: Somewhere Among the Stars

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:02 pm

Lt. Staplic wrote: For all the flaws in executions, certain advancements and differences in size and power were only there because of OOC reasons.

The Kelvin was a big ship. But there's absolutely nothing I know of in TOS to say that there are no ships larger than the Connies. As for power, how can we possibly compare? Kelvin had more and different weapons but we haven't a clue how they stack up in terms of power, range, accuracy, etc.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:10 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:The Kelvin was a big ship. But there's absolutely nothing I know of in TOS to say that there are no ships larger than the Connies. As for power, how can we possibly compare? Kelvin had more and different weapons but we haven't a clue how they stack up in terms of power, range, accuracy, etc.


It's not just the Kelvin, it's the neoE - she's as big or bigger than a GCS, a ship whose size Picard was "in awe of" over a century later. There's no way in hell that that change came about as a result of the Kelvin's single encounter with the Narada.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.

Across the Universe - Chapter 2 now up
User avatar
Captain Seafort
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14943
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:29 pm

Mark wrote:I agree with Chief O'Brian.

"I hate temporal mechanics."

Him and me and you and a lot of other people, Mark. Heck, the split might've started in 'Tomorrow is Yesterday', if we wanna go deep.
User avatar
RK_Striker_JK_5
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 9009
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:27 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:35 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:It's not just the Kelvin, it's the neoE - she's as big or bigger than a GCS, a ship whose size Picard was "in awe of" over a century later. There's no way in hell that that change came about as a result of the Kelvin's single encounter with the Narada.

Which, as I said, is purely a fan interpretation. There's nothing at all in canon to support the idea.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:46 pm

It's about as canon as you're going to get - far more so than any of the various PT/phaser/shield calcs that get thrown around. On top of that, Chekov was highly impressed by the size of the Excelsior, a ship considerably smaller than the neo-E. Do you think a power in the middle of a major arms race is going to hold back from building the biggest, most powerful ship it can?
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.

Across the Universe - Chapter 2 now up
User avatar
Captain Seafort
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14943
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:57 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:It's about as canon as you're going to get - far more so than any of the various PT/phaser/shield calcs that get thrown around. On top of that, Chekov was highly impressed by the size of the Excelsior, a ship considerably smaller than the neo-E. Do you think a power in the middle of a major arms race is going to hold back from building the biggest, most powerful ship it can?


Saying something is big or that you are "in awe" of how big it is really doesn't at all mean the same thing as "it's the biggest". I can walk up to a car, a building, a ship, and say "Wow, that's big" and in no way does it mean it's the biggest I've ever seen, let alone the biggest ever built.

But in the end it doesn't really matter what You or I think. The question is whether it is established in canon or not. And it is not. It's really that simple - they never say "this is the biggest ship" and so it's not canon that it is.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Captain Seafort » Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:08 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:I can walk up to a car, a building, a ship, and say "Wow, that's big" and in no way does it mean it's the biggest I've ever seen, let alone the biggest ever built.


If you or I said that, it would be true. If a professional naval officer with several decades command experience proclaims himself to be in awe of the size of a warship, you can safely say that said warship is something exceptional.

The question is whether it is established in canon or not. And it is not. It's really that simple - they never say "this is the biggest ship" and so it's not canon that it is.


They also never explicitly answered any of the other questions that we've discussed and answered on this forum over the past four years and which you've been doing since DITL started. It isn't necessary. All that's necessary is that the answer is consistent with all canon facts and, wherever possible, reality. If we restricted ourselves to only considering absolutist statements then this forum would be very boring.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.

Across the Universe - Chapter 2 now up
User avatar
Captain Seafort
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14943
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby Graham Kennedy » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:51 am

Captain Seafort wrote:If you or I said that, it would be true. If a professional naval officer with several decades command experience proclaims himself to be in awe of the size of a warship, you can safely say that said warship is something exceptional.

No, you can't. All you can safely say is that he thinks it's a big ship. Not "the biggest" ship.

They also never explicitly answered any of the other questions that we've discussed and answered on this forum over the past four years and which you've been doing since DITL started. It isn't necessary.

It is necessary if you are going to declare things to be canonical. By all means speculate as much as you like - I do all the time. It's entertaining and all that. But when you decide that your speculation is so convincing to you that it's actually canon, you've taken a step that's not justified.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8018
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Enterprise-which timeline?

Postby sunnyside » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:43 pm

Regarding the holodeck bit, I figure some version of Enterprise happened in most if not all of the cannon universes.

As for the OP. There is plenty of timeline violating going on in Trek, so a lot of possibilities to exist. But another might be that the cloak used in Enterprise was easily detectable by standard ship sensors long before TOS and thus had fallen out of use, so what was new in the TOS episode was that there was a cloak that actually worked against current sensors.

I mean arguably we've got cloaks now, after a fashion, with our stealth aircraft.
User avatar
sunnyside
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2426
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:35 pm

PreviousNext

Return to ENT

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron