Enterprise-which timeline?

[Tsukiyumi]

I also liked seasons 3 and 4. Especially 4, but at least 3 had a plot arc.

[GrahamKennedy]

Season 3 was a big improvement, and 4 improved hugely on that, I thought.

I don't go for attempts to de-canonise Enterprise or make it part of the alt universe, though. Seems rather arbitrary and silly to me. Plus it's very clearly not what the people making the show have in mind.

[Captain Seafort]

I'm pretty sure that making the Kelvin part of a completely separate universe prior to Nero's arrival wasn't what Abrams had in mind either. Nonetheless, that's what the film depicts.

[Mark]

And as always, its left up to us to explain

[GrahamKennedy]

I'm pretty sure that making the Kelvin part of a completely separate universe prior to Nero's arrival wasn't what Abrams had in mind either. Nonetheless, that's what the film depicts.

No, it doesn't. That's what some people are interpreting it to depict.

[Lt. Staplic]

I see three Seperate Timelines arriving:

1. Geneverse - The Trek from TOS, TNG, VOY, and DS9 as well as all of the movies until Nemisis
2. Gap Verse - The Universe Created by the events of First Contact that lead to a more advanced Earth and Federation. Leads to Enterprise and the nKelvin, possible that it is only in this Universe that Romulus is destroyed.
3. Abramsverse - Alternate Unvierse Created by the appearance of the Narada and destruction of the Kelvin.

While It would be convenient for this to be the case, Graham is right that this isn't what was meant. For all the flaws in executions, certain advancements and differences in size and power were only there because of OOC reasons.

[GrahamKennedy]

For all the flaws in executions, certain advancements and differences in size and power were only there because of OOC reasons.

The Kelvin was a big ship. But there's absolutely nothing I know of in TOS to say that there are no ships larger than the Connies. As for power, how can we possibly compare? Kelvin had more and different weapons but we haven't a clue how they stack up in terms of power, range, accuracy, etc.

[Captain Seafort]

The Kelvin was a big ship. But there's absolutely nothing I know of in TOS to say that there are no ships larger than the Connies. As for power, how can we possibly compare? Kelvin had more and different weapons but we haven't a clue how they stack up in terms of power, range, accuracy, etc.

It's not just the Kelvin, it's the neoE - she's as big or bigger than a GCS, a ship whose size Picard was "in awe of" over a century later. There's no way in hell that that change came about as a result of the Kelvin's single encounter with the Narada.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I agree with Chief O'Brian.

"I hate temporal mechanics."

Him and me and you and a lot of other people, Mark. Heck, the split might've started in 'Tomorrow is Yesterday', if we wanna go deep.

[GrahamKennedy]

It's not just the Kelvin, it's the neoE - she's as big or bigger than a GCS, a ship whose size Picard was "in awe of" over a century later. There's no way in hell that that change came about as a result of the Kelvin's single encounter with the Narada.

Which, as I said, is purely a fan interpretation. There's nothing at all in canon to support the idea.

[Captain Seafort]

It's about as canon as you're going to get - far more so than any of the various PT/phaser/shield calcs that get thrown around. On top of that, Chekov was highly impressed by the size of the Excelsior, a ship considerably smaller than the neo-E. Do you think a power in the middle of a major arms race is going to hold back from building the biggest, most powerful ship it can?

[GrahamKennedy]

It's about as canon as you're going to get - far more so than any of the various PT/phaser/shield calcs that get thrown around. On top of that, Chekov was highly impressed by the size of the Excelsior, a ship considerably smaller than the neo-E. Do you think a power in the middle of a major arms race is going to hold back from building the biggest, most powerful ship it can?

Saying something is big or that you are "in awe" of how big it is really doesn't at all mean the same thing as "it's the biggest". I can walk up to a car, a building, a ship, and say "Wow, that's big" and in no way does it mean it's the biggest I've ever seen, let alone the biggest ever built.

But in the end it doesn't really matter what You or I think. The question is whether it is established in canon or not. And it is not. It's really that simple - they never say "this is the biggest ship" and so it's not canon that it is.

[Captain Seafort]

I can walk up to a car, a building, a ship, and say "Wow, that's big" and in no way does it mean it's the biggest I've ever seen, let alone the biggest ever built.

If you or I said that, it would be true. If a professional naval officer with several decades command experience proclaims himself to be in awe of the size of a warship, you can safely say that said warship is something exceptional.

The question is whether it is established in canon or not. And it is not. It's really that simple - they never say "this is the biggest ship" and so it's not canon that it is.

They also never explicitly answered any of the other questions that we've discussed and answered on this forum over the past four years and which you've been doing since DITL started. It isn't necessary. All that's necessary is that the answer is consistent with all canon facts and, wherever possible, reality. If we restricted ourselves to only considering absolutist statements then this forum would be very boring.

[GrahamKennedy]

If you or I said that, it would be true. If a professional naval officer with several decades command experience proclaims himself to be in awe of the size of a warship, you can safely say that said warship is something exceptional.

No, you can't. All you can safely say is that he thinks it's a big ship. Not "the biggest" ship.

They also never explicitly answered any of the other questions that we've discussed and answered on this forum over the past four years and which you've been doing since DITL started. It isn't necessary.

It is necessary if you are going to declare things to be canonical. By all means speculate as much as you like - I do all the time. It's entertaining and all that. But when you decide that your speculation is so convincing to you that it's actually canon, you've taken a step that's not justified.

[sunnyside]

Regarding the holodeck bit, I figure some version of Enterprise happened in most if not all of the cannon universes.

As for the OP. There is plenty of timeline violating going on in Trek, so a lot of possibilities to exist. But another might be that the cloak used in Enterprise was easily detectable by standard ship sensors long before TOS and thus had fallen out of use, so what was new in the TOS episode was that there was a cloak that actually worked against current sensors.

I mean arguably we've got cloaks now, after a fashion, with our stealth aircraft.