BBC Reruns

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Talondor
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BBC Reruns

Post by Talondor »

This series is now being shown on the American BBC network. Now I can watch the whole thing from the beginning (for the first time).
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Bryan Moore »

It is the one series I could not get through re-watching on Netflix. I have done TNG at least 4 times now (on my 5th, early in season 2), DS9 twice, TOS/Enterprise once. While unemployed/working from home for 5 months around this time last year, I plowed through upwards of 1 season a day (sad). I gave up on Voyager after 8 episodes.

Live, I went through the first 100 episodes without missing an original air time, until I magically forgot about episode 101, and by then the streak was broken. I've seen the full series, but it does NOT hold up well!
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Mikey »

I've found the same thing. As often as I head to BBC-A thinking, "Hey! There's 'Trek on!" I just as quickly realize that it was a VOY ep that I had no desire to see again.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

I wish I could do more than echo the sentiment at this point.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Bryan Moore »

It is quite remarkable how poorly it held up. In theory, it sets up for wonderfully interesting possibilities, with a whole plethora of new species and challenges, plus... THE BORG! And yet they made the new species dumb, the crew chemistry was terrible, and the Borg went from terrifying soulless Jason Voorhies-esque zombie hoard killers to... well, whatever they became. So sad.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Its a classic case of mismanagement. Tvtropes actually has a pretty good trivia page detailing some of the reasons behind it.

A few highlihgts :

There was a lot of infighting amongst the show's staff. Both cast and the writing crew, not to mention the executives at UPN. Robert Beltran and Ron D. Moore are among the better known examples of internal dissent.

Michael Piller was the first to go. Rick Berman has warned against the disappointing nature of running arc plots and recurring characters, and stuff like the Kazon (and later the Temporal Cold War) only confirmed his worst fears. Jeri Taylor was in full agreement, and promptly killed off all of Piller's original characters when she took over as sole showrunner. (Apart from Ensign Wildman; this is Star Trek and no matter how much they object to recurring characters they couldn’t quite bring themselves to kill a child’s mother.)

Shortly after DS9 wrapped, Ron D. Moore was invited to come over from CBS and work for Rick Berman; Brannon Braga wasn't particularly happy about Moore's hiring. Moore soon left the show "under a cloud", as the trade papers took it. He was reportedly unhappy with the atmosphere of the writer's room and his relationship with Braga became unworkable; it got to the point where Braga relocated the meetings with staff to his house (to which Moore was not invited). Once Moore grasped he had no input and was expected to be a nodding head, he left. The last straw was reportedly when he asked what B'Elanna's reaction to a certain situation would be, and got the reply "We don't know, do whatever you want.".

Little did Rick Berman suspect that when he cast Robert Beltran, the star of Night of the Comet to be his Number One, he had unwittingly birthed Winnebago Man IN SPACE. Not long into VOY's run, Robert Beltran stopped playing Mister Nice Guy and openly expressed his loathing of the show's plot, his co-stars (he only signed on to act alongside Geneviève Bujold), the producers, himself for playing such a formulaic (and at times borderline racist) role, and most of all you for watching it (causing some disillusioned Trekkies to flee a convention in tears). His co-stars fired back in separate interviews, and the showrunners publicly told him to muzzle it. There were even rumors that he attempted to force his exit from the show by demanding an outrageous amount of money during contract renegotiations, only to have it given to him without complaint.

Both Jeri Ryan and Garrett Wang have been open in their dislike (hatred, in Ryan's case) of the "Do you wish to copulate?" scene.

Kate Mulgrew gradually lost her patience with the scattershot handling of her character throughout the show, and was deeply frustrated by a number of executive decisions and the generally poor writing her character suffered from.

Many creative decisions came about due to VOY being a network-owned show, unlike TNG and DS9. This led to some unusual—and at times, bizarre—decisions from UPN and Paramount both:

Several scenes in the pilot had to be reshot because the studio vetoed Kate Mulgrew's hairstyle.

The divisions between the Starfleet and Maquis officers were originally going to be more pronounced, but after the pilot, the network asked for this to be changed. The divisions were made more minor in Season 1 and largely ignored afterwards.

The infamous Rick Berman luncheon. Shortly before shooting began, Berman got the cast together and told them the Powers That Be wanted the aliens to be the show's real stars, and that the human characters were forbidden to steal the spotlight. (Presumably because Star Trek's previous breakout characters, Spock and Data, weren't human.) Indeed, it became difficult for the writers to save money on bottle episodes—typically character/psychological dramas—without attracting the ire of executives. They found a loophole by switching focus to the EMH (originally intended as a Drop-In Character) and adding a mini-Borg Collective to their "alien" roster.



Little wonder the show doesn't work too well.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Bryan Moore »

Graham Kennedy wrote:Its a classic case of mismanagement. Tvtropes actually has a pretty good trivia page detailing some of the reasons behind it.

A few highlihgts :

There was a lot of infighting amongst the show's staff. Both cast and the writing crew, not to mention the executives at UPN. Robert Beltran and Ron D. Moore are among the better known examples of internal dissent.

Michael Piller was the first to go. Rick Berman has warned against the disappointing nature of running arc plots and recurring characters, and stuff like the Kazon (and later the Temporal Cold War) only confirmed his worst fears. Jeri Taylor was in full agreement, and promptly killed off all of Piller's original characters when she took over as sole showrunner. (Apart from Ensign Wildman; this is Star Trek and no matter how much they object to recurring characters they couldn’t quite bring themselves to kill a child’s mother.)

Shortly after DS9 wrapped, Ron D. Moore was invited to come over from CBS and work for Rick Berman; Brannon Braga wasn't particularly happy about Moore's hiring. Moore soon left the show "under a cloud", as the trade papers took it. He was reportedly unhappy with the atmosphere of the writer's room and his relationship with Braga became unworkable; it got to the point where Braga relocated the meetings with staff to his house (to which Moore was not invited). Once Moore grasped he had no input and was expected to be a nodding head, he left. The last straw was reportedly when he asked what B'Elanna's reaction to a certain situation would be, and got the reply "We don't know, do whatever you want.".

Little did Rick Berman suspect that when he cast Robert Beltran, the star of Night of the Comet to be his Number One, he had unwittingly birthed Winnebago Man IN SPACE. Not long into VOY's run, Robert Beltran stopped playing Mister Nice Guy and openly expressed his loathing of the show's plot, his co-stars (he only signed on to act alongside Geneviève Bujold), the producers, himself for playing such a formulaic (and at times borderline racist) role, and most of all you for watching it (causing some disillusioned Trekkies to flee a convention in tears). His co-stars fired back in separate interviews, and the showrunners publicly told him to muzzle it. There were even rumors that he attempted to force his exit from the show by demanding an outrageous amount of money during contract renegotiations, only to have it given to him without complaint.

Both Jeri Ryan and Garrett Wang have been open in their dislike (hatred, in Ryan's case) of the "Do you wish to copulate?" scene.

Kate Mulgrew gradually lost her patience with the scattershot handling of her character throughout the show, and was deeply frustrated by a number of executive decisions and the generally poor writing her character suffered from.

Many creative decisions came about due to VOY being a network-owned show, unlike TNG and DS9. This led to some unusual—and at times, bizarre—decisions from UPN and Paramount both:

Several scenes in the pilot had to be reshot because the studio vetoed Kate Mulgrew's hairstyle.

The divisions between the Starfleet and Maquis officers were originally going to be more pronounced, but after the pilot, the network asked for this to be changed. The divisions were made more minor in Season 1 and largely ignored afterwards.

The infamous Rick Berman luncheon. Shortly before shooting began, Berman got the cast together and told them the Powers That Be wanted the aliens to be the show's real stars, and that the human characters were forbidden to steal the spotlight. (Presumably because Star Trek's previous breakout characters, Spock and Data, weren't human.) Indeed, it became difficult for the writers to save money on bottle episodes—typically character/psychological dramas—without attracting the ire of executives. They found a loophole by switching focus to the EMH (originally intended as a Drop-In Character) and adding a mini-Borg Collective to their "alien" roster.



Little wonder the show doesn't work too well.
My Lord, as a 12 year old when this came out, I had no knowledge of this. No wonder the whole show feels like a clusterfuck in retrospect.

I can't help but be mildly annoyed by the reliance of TNG to have Picard and Ruler each be Jack (or Jacques, the farmer's case) of all Trades, but every character on Voyager was so one- dimensional it was painful.

Tom is a rebel who likes 20th century things. Harry is a puss with women. Chakotay is an Indian. Torres is mad. Janeway is woman, hear her roar. Seven was a hot woman whose innocence and naivety mixed with sexiness probably has some sick mirror of a sci- fi Lolita fantasy. The doctor struggles to be human, and while more interesting than the rest, falls way behind Odo, Data, and Spock with that. Godddamn, did I just realize Neelix was the most complex character in that show by default?!?!?
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Mikey »

Indeed, I knew there were some issues but I had no idea it was that bad. This, in particular, resonates with me:
Graham Kennedy wrote:The divisions between the Starfleet and Maquis officers were originally going to be more pronounced, but after the pilot, the network asked for this to be changed. The divisions were made more minor in Season 1 and largely ignored afterwards.
It was always a very particular bugbear of mine that except for some lip service at the beginning, one ep later on, and one more ep featuring some misguided mistrust, the Maquis - who hated Starfleet more than anything, and whom in turn Starfleet was dedicated to destroying - just sort of not only fell in, but became the officers of some of the most trusted and sensitive positions on the ship... AND became the ship's most terrible sticklers for regulations and formality!
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Talondor »

When this show first came out, I only saw a few episodes here and there. The only ones I really remember are the two Q episodes: finding the exile Q in the comet and the Q Civil War. Now that it is on BBC America I was kind of looking forward to seeing the whole thing through for the first time, and have about a season and a half worth scheduled to record on my DVR.

But listening to everyone here it is kind of bumming me out and I'm wondering if I should go back and erase the schedule since it may not be worth it.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Bryan Moore »

Eh, if you've space on the DVR, it is worth another spin. Don't let us grumpy old men dissuade you.
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Re: BBC Reruns

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Talondor wrote:When this show first came out, I only saw a few episodes here and there. The only ones I really remember are the two Q episodes: finding the exile Q in the comet and the Q Civil War. Now that it is on BBC America I was kind of looking forward to seeing the whole thing through for the first time, and have about a season and a half worth scheduled to record on my DVR.

But listening to everyone here it is kind of bumming me out and I'm wondering if I should go back and erase the schedule since it may not be worth it.
Don't let others decide what you like and don't like. Give it a go it certainly has some merit on occasion. Jetrel for example I thought was one of the best episodes of trek in any of the series.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Mikey »

Agreed. Even though I've been one of the nay-sayers, I don't know you well enough to tell you what you like or dislike. Further, Ian's right - "Jetrel" was an example of one of the high points of what 'Trek should be, and there are other episodes which are either good in a similar way or, if not, just fun. Unfortunately, some of VOY's low points were Death Valley, Dead Sea type low.
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I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Captain Seafort »

Mikey wrote:Unfortunately, some of VOY's low points were Death Valley, Dead Sea type low.
I didn't realise you had such a high opinion of the series. The Marianas Trench is a far more appropriate analogy.
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Mikey »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:Unfortunately, some of VOY's low points were Death Valley, Dead Sea type low.
I didn't realise you had such a high opinion of the series. The Marianas Trench is a far more appropriate analogy.
Meh. In the Marianas Trench, you'd at least see something interesting once in a while.

You know, if you hadn't been squashed like a grape from the pressure.
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I got the high gloss luster
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Re: BBC Reruns

Post by Talondor »

I just got done watching the first ten episodes and one thing is perfectly clear, Paris is Eddie Haskel to Kim's Wally Cleaver.
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