SFDebris: Fair Haven

[Captain Seafort]

Blip

In which another fundamental message of an episode gets right up Chuck's nose. To be fair to the episode though, it's not as if the Doc doesn't have a well-established blind spot when it comes to distinguishing between self-aware holograms such as himself, and puppets like Sullivan and 99% of holodeck creations.

[Teaos]

I think all Holodeck stories deserve a -4 to rating, I cant think of a single one I like.

[Teaos]

I think all Holodeck stories deserve a -4 to rating, I cant think of a single one I like.

[Tinadrin Chelnor]

I think all Holodeck stories deserve a -4 to rating, I cant think of a single one I like.

You repeated that, you must really dislike them!

Though I do entirely agree.

[McAvoy]

I can't think of one I like either. I tolerate some.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Damn, this one was bad. And Chuck gave it a righteous ass-kicking.

[Teaos]

Its just boring, and considering they need a set, on location shoots and costumes, it probably costs more than a real Trek episode.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Don't forget all those extras.

[Tyyr]

Lovely to ponder isn't it? What new sci-fi sets, cool aliens, and new ships had to get sidelined for a racist, boring, stupid period piece?

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

That visual effects spectacular with the new, thought-provoking species and ethical dilemma? Shelve it. We're doing Fair Haven!

[Tyyr]

I never understood the love of this kind of shit with the holodeck. It seems like some of the writers can't wait to not write sci-fi anymore and instead do anything else. You'd think the producers would reign them in and not let them blow budgets on location shooting and set building that has no real use outside of the three whole episodes they did anything with this.

[Graham Kennedy]

The holodeck was a flawed concept from the start. The whole premise of trek is designed as a way to allow the maximum variety of stories - the idea being that the ship can go to any given planet, thus it can be faced with any kind of society, any kind of people, etc. The holodeck was introduced as a way to allow an even wider range of stories because it allows period pieces, fictional places, etc.

They seem to have overlooked the fact that you can't really have interesting stories without drama, and drama flows from conflict and danger... which you can't have in a holodeck, because it's an arbitrary environment that you created and you control. So the only way to really make it work is to lose control of the holodeck... which makes your crew into victims of their own incompetence rather than the actual threat.

There are a few niche stories one can do plausibly in a holodeck - Barclay's addiction, for instance, or the Geordi/Brahms thing. But most holodeck stories just suck balls.


ETA : Another thing that always bugged me about the holodeck. When we see it in TNG, it's very obviously a new invention. Data has to explain how it works to Riker, and numerous people express amazement that it's even possible when they walk into the thing.

By the time Voyager rolls around they're talking as if the holodeck has existed for a very long time. Janeway references playing in one as a kid, even. Continuity, people!

[Tyyr]

Well, in their defense it was about a decade (in canon) between the start of TNG and Voyager. Smartphones haven't even existed for a decade at this point and they're pretty damn ubiquitous in many areas. I could see holodecks becoming old hat to a degree in a decade. As for Janeway... yeah I've got nothing, that's just a screw up.

[They seem to have overlooked the fact that you can't really have interesting stories without drama, and drama flows from conflict and danger... which you can't have in a holodeck, because it's an arbitrary environment that you created and you control. So the only way to really make it work is to lose control of the holodeck... which makes your crew into victims of their own incompetence rather than the actual threat.

And they have to bend over backwards making up reasons why, "Just cut power to the stupid thing," won't work. Your average holodeck story spends half the episode just trying to justify how their 24th century XBox is now actually a threat to them.

There are a few niche stories one can do plausibly in a holodeck - Barclay's addiction, for instance, or the Geordi/Brahms thing. But most holodeck stories just suck balls.

Forgot about those. They are holodeck centric episodes but the drama doesn't come from the holodeck itself but from interactions between the characters and the technology and what can happen because of it. They're more like character pieces with the holodeck as a means to tease out aspects of their characters rather than the story itself.

[Graham Kennedy]

And they have to bend over backwards making up reasons why, "Just cut power to the stupid thing," won't work. Your average holodeck story spends half the episode just trying to justify how their 24th century XBox is now actually a threat to them.

Yep. Not to mention trying to come up with reasons why, for example, they can't just have a backup copy of the Doctor in Message in a Bottle... only then they do have one in Living Witness. Or how running a program for a long time "wears it out"... somehow. Or my favourite, how the holodecks have their own power system that's completely incompatible with the ship's power grid. For some reason. (Why can't you just make a holographic bright sunny day, with holographic solar power cells, and connect real wires up to them? Wouldn't that generate actual real power that the ship could use?)

And so on. It's just kludge after kludge, purely because some writer decided to do X story this week and needed an excuse for the damn things to behave in some arbitrary way.

...and how in the holy hell do the things stay in use after they keep almost killing people? Seriously, for all that TNG loves to sneer at the present day attitudes to technology, we aren't the ones who issue technology to warships that routinely comes close to massacring large numbers of our own people... and then takes the attitude 'screw it, just keep using the thing. I'm pretty sure that won't happen again.' Hell, if these things existed in the present day then the manufacturers would have been sued into oblivion within about six months of issuing the damn things.

Forgot about those. They are holodeck centric episodes but the drama doesn't come from the holodeck itself but from interactions between the characters and the technology and what can happen because of it. They're more like character pieces with the holodeck as a means to tease out aspects of their characters rather than the story itself.

And that's really why they work. Because the only plausible story purpose the holodeck can fulfill is in showing us how people use it, and what that tells us about them.

Take Geordi. He fell in love with a woman who isn't real. His best friend is an emotionless android. His success rate with actual women is zero, that we know of. Hell, he's a cyborg himself! All this could have been pulled together to show Geordi as having similar issues to Barclay, if you think about it - fascination with technology substituting for an inability to connect with real people. In fact you could have foreshadowed and built on this over the first few seasons to the point where Geordi could have been the one who started shirking work and spending all his time in the holodeck rather than Barclay. Showing that develop and how he beats it could have been a really interesting plot arc for him... might even have given Troi something useful to do here and there as she helped him recover.

[Tyyr]

Yep. Not to mention trying to come up with reasons why, for example, they can't just have a backup copy of the Doctor in Message in a Bottle... only then they do have one in Living Witness. Or how running a program for a long time "wears it out"... somehow. Or my favourite, how the holodecks have their own power system that's completely incompatible with the ship's power grid. For some reason. (Why can't you just make a holographic bright sunny day, with holographic solar power cells, and connect real wires up to them? Wouldn't that generate actual real power that the ship could use?)

Well, given what they use for a power source I doubt solar's gonna add much but it would be something. Part of the problem with the holodeck is that no one sat down and said, "This is how it works, these are its limits, that's it." Then again you can say that about a lot of Trek's stuff. I mean overall it's pretty decently hung together but the holodeck is one area where it is just whatever the latest writer wants it to be and usually what it's treated as is a cave of wonders that no one has any control over.

...and how in the holy hell do the things stay in use after they keep almost killing people? Seriously, for all that TNG loves to sneer at the present day attitudes to technology, we aren't the ones who issue technology to warships that routinely comes close to massacring large numbers of our own people... and then takes the attitude 'screw it, just keep using the thing. I'm pretty sure that won't happen again.' Hell, if these things existed in the present day then the manufacturers would have been sued into oblivion within about six months of issuing the damn things.

Why can you turn the safety protocols off? I mean really, why? No one in their right mind would put a switch into your Playstation that would let the guys in Call of Duty actually start shooting bullets at the player so why would the holodeck have a control to let you turn things lethal? That should require massive tampering with the system and yet it seems like almost any officer can turn the holodeck into a death trap at will.

Hell, that almost seems like dodging the idea's greatest strength, that it's a place to live out fantasies but in the end its not real. Its the logical conclusion of escapism in entertainment yet they tried their hardest to not engage with that.

And that's really why they work. Because the only plausible story purpose the holodeck can fulfill is in showing us how people use it, and what that tells us about them.

I wonder if it was Gene's insistence on humans being pure uber-menches that were why those kind of stories were rare?

Take Geordi. He fell in love with a woman who isn't real. His best friend is an emotionless android. His success rate with actual women is zero, that we know of. Hell, he's a cyborg himself! All this could have been pulled together to show Geordi as having similar issues to Barclay, if you think about it - fascination with technology substituting for an inability to connect with real people. In fact you could have foreshadowed and built on this over the first few seasons to the point where Geordi could have been the one who started shirking work and spending all his time in the holodeck rather than Barclay. Showing that develop and how he beats it could have been a really interesting plot arc for him... might even have given Troi something useful to do here and there as she helped him recover.

Dealing with Barclay was the only time she ever behaved like a counselor I can recall prominently. She was absolutely awful at it but she was at least acting like a therapist. Exploring Geordi like that would have been a fun thing to do but I'm not sure TNG's episodic nature would have handled that as well. Heck, have the end of the road be Sonya Gomez or someone he can finally make human contact with in a more significant way.

Hmm, you know, you could have him love the holodeck because it could beam things right into his brain. Use the visor interface to give him the illusion of sight in the holographic space. Make that part of the issue, that while he loves what the visor can do for him it also feels like a mask he's eternally hiding behind disconnecting him from people. Eh, I'd have to think abou it more but Geordi having that kind of relationship with things could have been a great storyline.