VOY year 1

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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Captain Seafort » Thu May 02, 2013 7:59 pm

Tholian_Avenger wrote:I don't know where the idea comes form that Maquis have a disrespect for the chain of command. Seriously, I don't, I might have missed an episode where it was mentioned.


Learning Curve gave a pretty good demonstration of what the Maquis idea of a chain of command is - you're in charge as long as your fists can enforce it.

I can see why they might have a neutral feeling about Starfleet, all the way to contempt (and even hate), but nothing so bad that it couldn't have been buried until the lot got back to near the Alpha Quadrant.


As far as the Maquis were concerned, Starfleet abandoned them to the Cardassians. They weren't actively going after Starfleet most of the time, but at best they held them in contempt.

I'm not even sure there would be that many disputes over the PD, they were Fed citizens until relatively recently, they were just screwed over by bad foreign policy to a peer state.


The fact that they were Fed citizens does not mean they were fans of the PD, especially when they perceived it as lessening their chances of survival, accurately or otherwise.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby McAvoy » Thu May 02, 2013 8:03 pm

Keep in mind many Maquis didn't even go through Starfleet. So that alone would make them hard to assimilate into a Starfleet ship.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby kostmayer » Thu May 02, 2013 8:26 pm

Maybe if the altered the pilot slightly so that Voyager was actively in the process of shutting The Marquis ship down, rather than just trying to rescue Tuvok. That would lead to each crew blaming the other for them getting stranded in the first place.

Kes was way underused. I liked the plot line about her telepathic powers, up until the point she turned into Carrie.

As for Seven, there should have been some serious distrust of her from the crew. With that many ships lost at Wolf 359, there must be many crew members who have lost friends and family to the Borg. They weren't even an enemy as such, more a force of nature.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby stitch626 » Thu May 02, 2013 8:29 pm

I don't think the Maquis had much a problem with the chain of command... they had a problem with Starfleet.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Captain Seafort » Thu May 02, 2013 8:33 pm

stitch626 wrote:I don't think the Maquis had much a problem with the chain of command... they had a problem with Starfleet.


The fact that, when Tuvok's bunch of trainees started whining, Chakotay defined "the Maquis way" as decking anyone who argued suggests otherwise.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby stitch626 » Thu May 02, 2013 8:38 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
stitch626 wrote:I don't think the Maquis had much a problem with the chain of command... they had a problem with Starfleet.


The fact that, when Tuvok's bunch of trainees started whining, Chakotay defined "the Maquis way" as decking anyone who argued suggests otherwise.

That seemed to me to show their version of discipline, rather than rank holding. The were disrespectfully showing disagreement, for which a Starfleet captain would likely put them in the brig (or some other punitive measure).
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 03, 2013 1:21 am

stitch626 wrote:
Captain Seafort wrote:
stitch626 wrote:I don't think the Maquis had much a problem with the chain of command... they had a problem with Starfleet.


The fact that, when Tuvok's bunch of trainees started whining, Chakotay defined "the Maquis way" as decking anyone who argued suggests otherwise.

That seemed to me to show their version of discipline, rather than rank holding. The were disrespectfully showing disagreement, for which a Starfleet captain would likely put them in the brig (or some other punitive measure).



You are mistaken actual chain of command vs. Do what I say.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Teaos » Fri May 03, 2013 9:50 am

A larg number of the Marquis were either starfleet trained or at least Federation citizen educated which seems to be at a very high level. Mix that in with general know how and experience I think a Marquis crew member would be more valuable at the end of the day in this situation.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Tyyr » Fri May 03, 2013 11:19 am

They'd be extremely valuable, but you'd have to overcome the Fed's innate superiority complex. Re: The amount of shit B'Elana got for being an Academy dropout.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Teaos » Fri May 03, 2013 1:27 pm

Getting shit doesnt stop you being better than someone else, it would only take until the first big disaster for the Marquis to show them whats what. After that it would be the Feds getting shit.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 03, 2013 4:44 pm

I actually think in this situation instead of Maquis being a poor man's version of Starfleet they should have made them very distinct with only a few actually meshing with Starfleet well enough.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Captain Seafort » Fri May 03, 2013 4:45 pm

Teaos wrote:it would only take until the first big disaster for the Marquis to show them whats what. After that it would be the Feds getting shit.


Assuming said disaster isn't caused by their slapdash approach to problem-solving.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby Teaos » Fri May 03, 2013 6:25 pm

For the most part they know what they're doing. I imgin they're ability to survive with out spares would win out quickly.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby stitch626 » Fri May 03, 2013 7:23 pm

McAvoy wrote:You are mistaken actual chain of command vs. Do what I say.

And what's the difference between punching do what I say and throw in the brig do what I say? Starfleet does the same thing. Unless you have a darn good reason, insubordination (not doing what I say) = punitive measures. They just have different choices of what makes a good punitive measure.
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Re: VOY year 1

Postby McAvoy » Fri May 03, 2013 8:17 pm

Never been in the military have we? Rank holding is exactly like taking an order.

In the military they train you to take orders with the threat of punishment. They don't train you to take orders and then say 'you can do it if you want.' That is how it works and how it has always worked.

The Maquis do it the same exact way. Only difference is they have to use force because for some of them sitting in a brig isn't a big deal.

Oh and 'that is an order' in real life is redundant. Everything that comes out of a superior's mouth is an offer not a request unless he specifically says it is a request.
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