SF Debris: Nothing Human

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Nutso
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SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Nutso »

http://sfdebris.blip.tv/file/4814982/
Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide looks at Nothing Human. Needing to save a terminal Torres from an alien, the Doctor makes a holographic consultant. Since there's a slew of people fighting the Cardassians on board, he makes him a Cardassian. This does not end well.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Captain Seafort »

Good review, although I think Chuck is being a bit stingy in only giving it a 7 - I'd've gone for an 8, and possibly even 9, given the way it manages to avoid a lot of Voyager's main problems despite placing itself in the situations that usually led to them.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

Yeah, definitely an 8 or 9. This is a damned good episode.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Tyyr »

Very good. This episode was surprisingly well done, one of Voyager's best and to me it just goes to show why Jetrel was utter crap.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Mikey »

Yeah, except it wasn't. An archetypal theme =/= one which is played out, especially if the new incarnation is done well.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Tyyr »

Sorry, but Jetrel sucked. It pulled ever punch, telegraphed every plot point, and threw in Voyager's usual hideous technobabble and bad characterization. Jetrel could have been this good if the writer's had some balls.

Jetrel - Strawman villian. There's no ambiguity, there's no questioning if what he did had an upside or a good reason. He's just an evil guy that the crew can beat on. He tops this off with not even having good reasoning just lobbing pitiful excuses at the Voyager crew so they can knock them out of the park. There's no upside to Jetrel, there's nothing even a bit ambiguous about him. He is set up to be obviously, irredemably evil, and to not even defend himself for it. He existed to be a moral punching bag.

Crell - An evil guy but at the same time his horrible methods saved thousands (millions?) and could save B'Elanna. So while he's a horrible person the end results of his actions benefited some people and could benefit Voyager even then. He doesn't make up lame excuses he owns up to what he did and gives reasoning for it that while cold and calculating isn't easy to argue with in a pat manner. Heck, they don't even really let him stay purely evil as he consents to the Doc's procedure and when the Doc's procedure goes right does he do the evil thing and try to fuck it up or murder the alien? No, he does his level best to make sure it works and then excitedly talks about how they can write up what they learned and move forward to it. They moved a nice black villain to a shade of gray.

Jetrel ties up everything with a nice pat bow. Neelix admits that the real reason he didn't fight in the war wasn't a deep seated moral reason, he was just a coward. Yet how does Kes react? To tell him he was brave for refusing to fight in a war he didn't believe in. The guy admits he's a coward but the show can't stomach that. They immediately have to have Kes react favorably to him. She ignores his admission and continues on with the delusion. Why? Because letting Neelix have been a coward might just change the dynamic between the characters and this is Voyager, fuck that. They were mashing the magic reset button between lines of dialogue in the same conversation. Also, Jetrel dies, not at the hands of Neelix or as any kind of retribution. No, it's a nice pat fitting end. The weapon he designed and murdered so many people with claimed it's last victim in him. How fitting. To polish it all off, Neelix forgives the guy right before he dies. Everything nicely wrapped up with no possible long term implications for what should have been the kind of episode that had them. Even the technobabble sucked with the walking nuclear bomb disease. How they were in awe of a weapon that could kill 300,000 people when they're in a starship stocked with 40 torpedoes each capable of vaporizing cities of millions.

On the other hand you have Nothing Human where everything is nice and messy. Crell killed thousands but saved millions. His research wasn't Mengela, he wasn't Unit 731, it had real practical applications that could help people even if they were arrived at in an inhuman manner. They didn't have it be a esoteric issue either. B'Elanna was going to die and they could either use the research or watch her die knowing they could have saved her. Janeway didn't pontificate about her decision to use the research, she didn't get to be right. The decision was made and for once Voyager had the stones to own up to it, that it was a morally repugnant decision but given the circumstances she swallowed her morality and did what was best for the crew. The Doctor didn't get to come out smelling like roses either, first for using the research and then for choosing to delete it knowing that it might save lives down the road. The performances show it nicely as well, the distaste all around for what they're doing, why they're doing it, and the long term implications of it.

They are two very similar episodes with similar subjects. In Jetrel they completely wussed out and told the Disney approved version of the tale (save for getting everyone back. That is at least one place where Jetrel didn't go puss out) versus Nothing Human where they told a much more interesting version of the same general story.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Mikey »

Yep. All true. It doesn't really diminish anything for me, because while the themes and achetypes in "Jetrel" were, well, archetypal, Jetrel showed performances - especially by Phillips - that could have made VOY completely soar beyond the limitations of the writing (series-wide) if they had been consistent.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Tyyr »

I fully agree on that point. Phillips performance in Jetrel was pretty amazing. For me though it's just wasted effort. An amazing performance in a really crappy episode.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Mikey »

I'm all for protesting triteness and hackneyed points; I just don't think that in "Jetrel" some of those points were used as filler so much as archetypal storytelling.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Tyyr »

It is an archetypal story. That's a big part of my issue with it. It's incredibly predictable because nothing new was brought to the story and they pulled their punches robbing the archetype of any potential to make you think. I'm not saying Nothing Human was bold new story telling. Both episodes represent the same general story that was old before Jetrel was ever even conceived. However the archetype in this case can produce thought provoking, ambiguous, and interesting stories. To me Nothing Human was the archetype used to a T producing a great episode. With Jetrel they made an utterly forgettable episode that didn't make you examine anything about your own morality but just beat you over the head with the writer's.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Mikey »

Obviously, "Jetrel" wasn't forgettable - whether based on the production, performance, or writing is immaterial. I, for one, don't always need to have a bout of soul-searching induced in order to enjoy something.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Tyyr »

And I don't either. However I go back to my mantra, I don't care whether or not something has been done before, it's all been done before. What I care about is if it's well done or brings something new to the concept. Nothing Human does it very well. Jetrel does it half assed and brings nothing new to the show. So for me I don't enjoy it, I've seen it before and I've seen it done far better.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Mikey »

By that logic, "Nothing Human" or any other episode of any TV show produced since 1979 would fall under the same category. If you can't enjoy an ep based on the performances without some deep existential meaning, then fine - that's certainly your prerogative. I happen to be so able, which is mine.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Tyyr »

Are you just not paying attention or are you being obtuse on purpose? I flat out stated in the opening sentence that I do not require deep existential meaning, soul searching, whatever hyperbolic phrase you want to use, to enjoy a show. I can enjoy a straight up retelling of an old story even if it brings nothing new to the table if it is well done. Full stop.
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Re: SF Debris: Nothing Human

Post by Mikey »

Tyyr wrote:Are you just not paying attention or are you being obtuse on purpose? I flat out stated in the opening sentence that I do not require deep existential meaning, soul searching, whatever hyperbolic phrase you want to use, to enjoy a show. I can enjoy a straight up retelling of an old story even if it brings nothing new to the table if it is well done. Full stop.
No, actually I am paying attention, which is how I noticed the dichotomy/inaccuracy of that statement. You did say that, but your continued commentary on the differences between "Nothing Human" and "Jetrel" completely belies that statement. I chose to comment based on what was indicated by your dialogue, not what you stated at the outset but was proven inaccurate.

Why are trying to make a beef about this? I already said that I cede you your prerogative to like or dislike anything you want; I'm not sure I understand why you think I shouldn't have the same.
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