Voyager vs SGU

Voyager

Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Thu Dec 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Tsu and I were talking about this before recording this week.

I personally think Stargate Universe is exactly the sort of show Voyager should have been.

The main complaints thrown at Voyager are

* Magic reset button on ship damage

* No character conflict

* No long plot arcs.

Then we have SGU where a major ongoing plot is the condition of the ship and how to fix it or at least keep it ticking. Infact in one of the first episode they get attacked by aliens who cut a hole in the ships hull, and even a season latter you still see that hole down a corridore they are using. They dont make a big deal out of it, but its nice to see that bit of continuity.

The conflict between the military and scientists is exactly what we should have seen between the Marqui and the Starfleet. Initially working together just to survive, then plotting and an attempted coup, then a tence peace with a lot of power plays. Then uniting against an outside foe. Not everyone getting along after 1 episode.

Plot arcs, appart from the lack luster speeds Voyager was heading home at there wasnt really a long term plot arc appart from Sevens and the Doctors charater growth. SGU had several plot arcs ranging from character to the ship to exploring and finding a way home.

I cant see how a series in the same genra as Voyager, that fixed most of the mistakes of Voyager, from a series as popular as Voyager, lasted 5 seasons less.

EDIT: Just realised this isnt a vs as in this universe is better than that so much as it is about story lines and general themes.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby McAvoy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:54 pm

Maquis not Marqui.

Anyway I agree. But I always compared Voyager to BSG. Granted Voyager wasn't able to fully utilize CGI to maintain the effect of a damaged Voyager but there are ways to create the studio model to have easily enough damaged sections to come off when needed. Same goes for the CGI model.

I always thought it would have made for a nice season long arc with a heavily damaged Voyager like in Year of Hell but drawn out over a season where Janeway tries to fix Voyager. At the end of the series we should have seen heavy damage covered up with different colored metal plates and even jury rigged thingies all over the ship to show rerouted power or whatever. We should see crew members bunked up with others, maybe Janeway living in her ready room after a direct hit to her quarters gutted it.

We should have seen maybe a two patter where the Marquis takes over or attempts to take over the ship. vhakotay playing the in-between as well. Neelix should not have been an annoying character but a smuggler or trader that helps Voyager when needed.

We could have seen other alien life wanting to come onboar whatever reason. We should see the stress of being so far from home once shop that is slowly tearing itself apart and maybe following a captain that is slowly doubting herself.

But it came down to show politics to make it TNG like.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 4013
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:15 pm

vhakotay


Chakotay not vhakotay :P

The Marquis taking over is almost cliche, there were really to few of them, and they did get 2 senior jobs and only 1 step removed from taking over if Janeway OD'd on caffine.

But it still would have been cool is almost all of the Starfleet engineers got taken out in the first episode so almost all the Marquis ended up there. So when Jabeway threatened to confine them to quarters for something they could threten to strike and really screw Voyager over. See them as almost two totally different crews. I worked on ships for years and I can say, even though your ship is only a couple hundred meters long, the engineering department and deck department has nothing to do with each other and quite ofter openly that each other to the point that if a deck guy walks into the mess all the engineers would sniff the air once, stand up and leave (seen this happen more than once).

As for damage, we dont need to see the ship every week (it would be nice) just make note of it in dialog. Or if it gets damaged, damage the ship model and use it like that for half a season before repairing it or making it even worse.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby McAvoy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:20 pm

:P Janeway not Jabeway. Are you typing one phone? I get the sane autocorrect bullshit.

Anyway I think the Maquis is not that cliched at that time as opposed to now.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 4013
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:23 pm

sane


*same*

True but I still dont see them as a real take over threat so much as a force unto themselves.

More long running plot arcs would have been nice though. The Borg were sort of an arc if a shitty one.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby McAvoy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:31 pm

Perhaps. Maybe it could work if written well enough.

At least a season or two of conflict would be nice.

The Kazon could have been written better than being just thugs.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 4013
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:36 pm

The premise of the Kazon are interesting, an semi advanced race taking over the industry and military of a much more advanced race and trying to get it working.

So much could be done with it. Voyager wouldnt need to trade technology and break the prime directive, just teach them how to use their own technology.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby McAvoy » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:39 pm

Teaos wrote:The premise of the Kazon are interesting, an semi advanced race taking over the industry and military of a much more advanced race and trying to get it working.

So much could be done with it. Voyager wouldnt need to trade technology and break the prime directive, just teach them how to use their own technology.


Well. They could have wrote how much a threat the Kazon would be with Federation technology as opposed to making it appear that Janeway didn't want to share her toys.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 4013
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Jim » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:20 pm

McAvoy wrote:But I always compared Voyager to BSG.


BSG and SGU were very similar... which is why SGU failed. I didn't like either show.

SGU was a drama that just happened to take place in space. Very little adventure, very little action. Mostly just drama and inter-characer tension (more drama). It was like West Wing, Law & Order, Dallas or what-have-you in space. zzzzzz
Ugh... do not thump the Book of G'Quan...
User avatar
Jim
Commander
Commander
 
Posts: 1462
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:08 pm

They had quite a bit of space adventure. Nice Aliens and some interesting relivant worlds, not a world a week like SG1 but still a nice variety.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Jim » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:08 pm

Teaos wrote:They had quite a bit of space adventure. Nice Aliens and some interesting relivant worlds, not a world a week like SG1 but still a nice variety.


For me, in SGU, the sci-fi stuff was just backgroud filler that someone else wrote in because it was supposed to be a sci-fi show.
Ugh... do not thump the Book of G'Quan...
User avatar
Jim
Commander
Commander
 
Posts: 1462
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:59 pm

I could buy that if several episodes werent soley about the Alien threat or the ship.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Sonic Glitch » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:09 pm

See, I enjoy "drama in space," when it's not entirely at odds with expected tradition. I enjoyed nuBSG but it was never marketed as a science fiction show. They were always very honest about the fact that they were a space drama, and that worked for them. However people don't (generally) watch Stargate to get "space drama." If I wanted drama/tension in space, I would watch BSG but that is not Stargates niche. I think that is where SGU went wrong, to some extent they tried to be BSG but they lost the "stargate" feel we all knew and loved.
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
User avatar
Sonic Glitch
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 5832
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 1:11 am
Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Coalition » Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:00 am

They also had those communication stones. I'd expect them to be using those stones so the person on the ship can remote to Earth, and go to a counselor. The body on the ship will be remoted in by an Ancient tech specialist to look over the ship, determine what is needed, and take lots of notes.

Those stones would be the key to keeping the passengers mostly sane.
Relativity Calculator
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
Coalition
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 777
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:34 am
Location: Georgia, United States

Re: Voyager vs SGU

Postby Teaos » Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:53 am

They are used more for holidays appart from in emergencies.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14670
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Next

Return to VOY

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google [Bot] and 2 guests