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I'll agree with you there re: The Defector.

A bug is in no way, shape or form a capital ship - it's the equivalent of a BoP (or Romulan scout).

But it has been seen to destroy Capital ships in a mere few shots, which puts its beam weapons on the same power level as the other Capital ships we have seen. Which is the salient point here.

Teaos wrote:But it has been seen to destroy Capital ships in a mere few shots, which puts its beam weapons on the same power level as the other Capital ships we have seen. Which is the salient point here.

No it hasn't. It's been seen to be capable of destroying capital ships when hunting in packs and with a significant technological advantage, but it's no more a capital ship than a submarine is.

Even with their initial advantage of passing through shields they only took, 5-7 shoots to make a GCS vessel go boom. Sure it was rammed in the end but I think that was a combination of the Bug being damaged and going down in glory and them not wanting to let the Odyssy crew escape and send a message. That means it has enough punch to push through the hull and deliver enough power o take down a GCS in minutes. Even the E-D would usually take longer to go critical.

Captain Seafort wrote:I agree with you regarding the Chinese, although they're improving rapidly, but not regarding the UK. Man for man, until very recently we've been almost as capable at projecting our power as you are, and will be your equal once the new carriers are commissioned. The difference is scale - the UK, on its own, could probably deploy and support a reinforced brigade strength expeditionary force for a limited period. The US routinely maintains two (IIRC) such forces constantly forward deployed.

Force projection is part ability of your troops but also part the number able. Which is where my statement comes from. British troops are just as able as most US troops. However US troops outnumber them eight to one on the battlefield and twelve to one at home with at least as much so in reserve.

Teaos wrote:Even with their initial advantage of passing through shields they only took, 5-7 shoots to make a GCS vessel go boom. Sure it was rammed in the end but I think that was a combination of the Bug being damaged and going down in glory and them not wanting to let the Odyssy crew escape and send a message. That means it has enough punch to push through the hull and deliver enough power o take down a GCS in minutes. Even the E-D would usually take longer to go critical.

Half a dozen or so hits that we saw. The fact that the Odyssey was vibrating constantly indicates that she was under constant or near constant fire, not just taking the few observed hits. Quite apart from that, I don't see how you can dismiss the damage done by the bug ramming the ship. The impact was enough to completely destroy the forward engineering hull, almost as far back as the core, and slammed a big lump of bug into the nacelle. Since prior indications were that the ship was being badly hurt but there was nothing to suggest she was in imminent danger of destruction (Keogh was prepared to continue the engagement, albeit for a very limited period, even after it was clear the shields were useless and his ship had been hit hard), the logical conclusion must be that the bugs' weapons weren't strong enough to damage the ship severely enough quickly enough to prevent her withdrawing.

Link It seems the first hit of 2-3 effectivly knocked out lighting on the bridge, casualties on 4 decks and a buggered naccel.

Your right that it seemed to get hit more than the 6 times I thought though.

Teaos wrote:Link It seems the first hit of 2-3 effectivly knocked out lighting on the bridge, casualties on 4 decks and a buggered naccel.

The bridge was badly damaged when we first cut to it, so it's after that initial attack. The additional jolts we saw during that scene are therefore likely to be additional attack runs by the Jem'Hadar. If you go by a cleaner version I'd say that initial attack alone scored at least four and possibly five hits - starboard saucer, starboard side of the main deflector, port neck and one or two to the port nacelle.

I lost count at eleven when the ship was shaking so bad I wasn't sure what was a hit or multiple hits. The more I watch that fight, the more impressed I am by the Odyssey and her captain.

Deepcrush wrote:I lost count at eleven when the ship was shaking so bad I wasn't sure what was a hit or multiple hits. The more I watch that fight, the more impressed I am by the Odyssey and her captain.

Aye. Keogh, despite his brief appearance, is one of the best Starfleet captains we've seen. He had a clear objective before going through the wormhole and had no illusions about the reception he was likely to receive. Once through he rapidly evaluated suggestions from his subordinates, and set time limits on how long he was prepared to grant for O'Brien's rescue mission. In action he adjusted these limits based on the situation, didn't need Dax to tell him how to fight his ship, and made the sound decision to reassign power from shields to weapons when it was clear the former weren't effective.

Its a shame he had to die, I would have liked to see him again.

The whole scene was great. Even the Odyssey didn't go boom the moment the first shot hit the warp nacelle. The ships seemed good enough to head home though damaged. I wish they the ship moving when the ship got rammed and went boom though. But that is just a lack of funds to make it move I guess.

The Galaxy class seen in DS9, such as the Odyssey, was an impressive beast. The GCS We see at the first battle of Chintoka gets truly hammered by the ODP platforms and keeps on firing through it all.

Well the GCS does seem to have a lot of redundent systems.

On paper and in specification, yes. However, the E-D is shown throughout TNG to be incredibly fragile and yet the DW era GCS appears much more solid.