The Way of the Romulan.

Deep Space Nine
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Captain Seafort »

Reliant121 wrote:However, the E-D is shown throughout TNG to be incredibly fragile and yet the DW era GCS appears much more solid.
Aye, and the Odyssey, despite her loss, might be the best example of the improvement. Her port nacelle was hit hard during the first Jem'Hadar run and she was venting plasma badly, but she not only held together but there was never any indication that she was in any danger of being lost prior to the ram. Given the E-D's notoriously poor performance under virtually identical circumstances in Cause and Effect, that's very impressive improvement.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by McAvoy »

Reliant121 wrote:The Galaxy class seen in DS9, such as the Odyssey, was an impressive beast. The GCS We see at the first battle of Chintoka gets truly hammered by the ODP platforms and keeps on firing through it all.
Even got a huge chunk blown out approximately where the warp core is supposed to be.

Well either the GCS was always this and the E-D sucked or the GCS had teething issues. Perhaps the technology in the GCS was so new that it took a while for Starfleet to figure it all out.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 12263
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Reliant121 »

I wouldn't be surprised if the E-D, being an early version, suffered a lot of performance issues because she was a new design. That being said, I thought that the Nebula preceded the GCS and used much the same technology.
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by McAvoy »

Perhaps or the Nebula used an older version of the technology. Who knows really.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Teaos
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15368
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: Behind you!

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Teaos »

I think they were made at the same time since they used the same tech. The GCS might just have taken a longer build time.

The biggest issue in the original GCS IMO was the warp core. Once they stabilise that with practice the rest of the ship is pretty good.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by McAvoy »

Yeah, E-D had a pretty bad one. Come to think of it only the E-D had an issue with it. They even replaced the original one.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
Posts: 12263
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:00 pm

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Reliant121 »

Yamato also suffered but that's hardly their fault.
User avatar
Deepcrush
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 18917
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:15 pm
Location: Arnold, Maryland, USA

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Deepcrush »

I don't think anyone is blaming the crews so much as the design. Yamato was lost because a virus got in her system and they didn't build in a purge option for the ship.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
User avatar
Praeothmin
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 634
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:04 pm
Location: Quebec City

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Praeothmin »

The GCS was indeed filled with new technology when introduced, and so, as mentioned, it would only be normal for the original vessels to have some issues if they were pushed in production too fast...
But we did see throughout TNG the E-D receive upgrades, and even have her Warp Core replaced...
Remember that in GEN, the E-D suffered at least 14 direct hits from the Duras Sisters' BoP while its shields had been breached, before the Warp core became an issue...

The GCS in general, after upgrades, is a very solid vessel...
As mentioned before, during the DW, it usually required more hits from Dominion forces to destroy one than required to destroy a Der'idex Warbird...
The truth always depends on which side of the fence you're standing... ;)
User avatar
Granitehewer
Captain
Captain
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:03 pm
Location: Teesside, England
Contact:

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Granitehewer »

Praeothmin wrote: As mentioned before, during the DW, it usually required more hits from Dominion forces to destroy one than required to destroy a Der'idex Warbird...
Cite evidence please...
PTLLS (Tees Achieve), DipHE App Bio (Northumbria), BSc Psychology (Teesside), Comparative Planetology (LJMU), High Energy Astrophysics (LJMU), Mobile Robotics/Physics (Swinburne), Genetics (SAC), Quant Meths (SAC)
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by McAvoy »

Granitehewer wrote:
Praeothmin wrote: As mentioned before, during the DW, it usually required more hits from Dominion forces to destroy one than required to destroy a Der'idex Warbird...
Cite evidence please...
The only one that we saw that got destroyed up close was the Odyssey. But the USS Galaxy herself took quite a few shots that even in the same battle a D'Deridex couldn't take.

However, there was a Galaxy class engineering section floating around after the Battle of Chintoka. Same scene when the Defiant was destroyed. Doesn't mean anything though. Could have been magical farts of Unicorns that destroyed it for all we know.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Granitehewer
Captain
Captain
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:03 pm
Location: Teesside, England
Contact:

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Granitehewer »

But how many hits does it take to destroy a Warbird ? Has someone compared it to the amount of hits that a Galaxy class can take or is this just something pulled out of the air?
PTLLS (Tees Achieve), DipHE App Bio (Northumbria), BSc Psychology (Teesside), Comparative Planetology (LJMU), High Energy Astrophysics (LJMU), Mobile Robotics/Physics (Swinburne), Genetics (SAC), Quant Meths (SAC)
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6225
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by McAvoy »

Going by the E-D? Blowing your nose. Who knows. However, if you watch the first Battle of Chintoka, a warbird took a three or four hits before spiraling out of control. The USS Galaxy, took just as many and kept on going.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
Granitehewer
Captain
Captain
Posts: 2237
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2007 12:03 pm
Location: Teesside, England
Contact:

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Granitehewer »

Oh poo drops! I thought the D'D would be awesomely resilient.
PTLLS (Tees Achieve), DipHE App Bio (Northumbria), BSc Psychology (Teesside), Comparative Planetology (LJMU), High Energy Astrophysics (LJMU), Mobile Robotics/Physics (Swinburne), Genetics (SAC), Quant Meths (SAC)
https://www.facebook.com/PeterBrayshay
User avatar
Teaos
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15368
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:00 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: Behind you!

Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Post by Teaos »

They seem to have rather poor shielding. Not suprising since the shields have to be so massive to cover the ship.
What does defeat mean to you?

Nothing it will never come. Death before defeat. I don’t bend or break. I end, if I meet a foe capable of it. Victory is in forcing the opponent to back down. I do not. There is no defeat.
Post Reply