The Way of the Romulan.

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The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Granitehewer » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:22 pm

I'm just wondering about how we view the strategies, capabilities and character of the various races so propose this exercise to sate my curiosity and to hopefully pique your own...

What if the Romulans had been influenced by the founders to invade the Cardassian Union instead of the Klingons doing so?
How do we think the other powers would react? What strategies would the Romulans use, and what measure of success would they have?

I remember Klingons ('Dogs of War' maybe?) talking about Cardassians using sensor shadows and warp ghosts etc, and about the Klingons deploying mines and so forth to fortify captured systems and that got me thinking how Romulans might act in such a situation if they were the aggressors...

In my opinion the Romulans are adept at sudden pre-emptive strikes as well as sowing dissent amongst their opponents, they also seem to be casually brutal at times as well as compassionate ('Birthright' etc). I was thinking that the Romulans would invade Cardassia in a similar way to the Klingons but without the pit stop at Deep Space Nine. The factors I can't really deduce relate to how the other powers would react and in turn what the Romulans would do so I was thinking...
Maybe the Romulans create a series of diversions to occupy the UFP and Klingons perhaps a series of accidents, false flag incidents and assassinations with the intent of the UFP and KE fracturing their alliance and bickering, allotting blame to each other. Meanwhile the RSE invades the CU rapidly and brutally employing weapons such as mines and deployable orbital weapons platforms possibly even using biogenic or similar weapons to try to cow the Cardassians into a quick surrender or negotiation leaving the Romulans a hefty area of the CU.
So the outcome would be the Cardassians retaining their core world and several systems whilst the Romulans occupy a large part of the now former Cardassian Union appointing overseers from the Romulan Navy as well as indigenous natives.
The Romulans would need to be in a position of strength lest the Klingons exploit the distraction and of course because the Romulans do appear to be a paranoid people anyway. I don't think the Romulans would have the time or inclination to conquer Cardassia itself but other views are welcome.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:32 pm

I dont think they would have done as well, the Klingons were quick and brutal. The Romulans are more like Cardassians in their style so probably more easily countered.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Granitehewer » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:40 pm

So you think that they'd reach a stalemate quite quickly?
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:51 pm

Very, the initial chock would have gained them some ground but i doubt they ever would have taken Cardassia prime.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:26 pm

Teaos wrote:I dont think they would have done as well, the Klingons were quick and brutal. The Romulans are more like Cardassians in their style so probably more easily countered.


The Cardassians' problem wasn't the Kilingons' style, it was the fact that they had the element of strategic surprise and massively superior firepower. Given the Romulans' tendency towards larger, more powerful ships rather than the Klingons' swarm of much smaller craft, any significant ship-to-ship action would be even more lopsided. Finally, the Klingons had to use DS9 as a staging post due to their lack of a common border with the Cardassians - the Romulans, as demonstrated by ItPM, do have a common border, and can therefore not only retain complete surprise but also have direct access to their home shipyards and supply dumps.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:03 pm

The Federation tend to have fewer more powerful ships much like the Romulans and they were at war with the Cardassians for years.

The fact that the Klingons do fight differently with more smaller craft could very well be a major advantage to them.

And I wouldnt bet on suprise being on the Romulan side, The Cardassians have one of the best intelligence agencies in the quadrant and share a common boarder with the Romulans... I doubt a Reman slave could scratch his left nut with out the Cardassians knowing about it.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:25 pm

I wonder if the Federation or DSN would've gotten involved, like what happened in WOTW.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:30 pm

Teaos wrote:The Federation tend to have fewer more powerful ships much like the Romulans and they were at war with the Cardassians for years.


Actually the Feds tend towards medium sized ships for the bulk of their fleet, with the GCS, Nebs, etc being unusual (although obviously not to the same extent as the Vor'cha and Negh'var). They also have a notoriously shite ground force, while the Cardies are one of the few with some evidence of a decent ground force. I've long hypothesised that this difference was the cause of the Cardie-UFP stalemate.

The fact that the Klingons do fight differently with more smaller craft could very well be a major advantage to them.


Possibly. It would certainly allow a force of equal mass to be far more widespread, and able to strike more widespread targets, but there are strong indications that they adopted a Clausewitzian strategy of destroying the enemy forces in the field, rather than a more dispersed raiding strategy.

And I wouldnt bet on suprise being on the Romulan side, The Cardassians have one of the best intelligence agencies in the quadrant and share a common boarder with the Romulans...


The Cardies may have the Obsidian Order, but the Romulans have the Tal'Shiar, and I think you're grossly underestimating their counterintelligence capabilities.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:36 pm

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:I wonder if the Federation or DSN would've gotten involved, like what happened in WOTW.


It depends why DS9 was chosen as a staging post by the Klingons. If it was simply as a convenient point to regroup and reorganise after crossing Federation space under cloak, then the Romulans wouldn't need it. If, however, it was chosen for it's strategic qualities as a jumping-off point, or to interpose between the alleged Founder-controlled Cardassia and reinforcements coming through the wormhole, then it could well find itself in the firing line. Even if the latter were the case, it's highly unlikely Sisko would be able to warn off the Cardassians - he was only able to do so because Worf called in a few old favours the House of Mogh was owed.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:49 pm

Actually the Feds tend towards medium sized ships for the bulk of their fleet, with the GCS, Nebs, etc being unusual (although obviously not to the same extent as the Vor'cha and Negh'var). They also have a notoriously shite ground force, while the Cardies are one of the few with some evidence of a decent ground force. I've long hypothesised that this difference was the cause of the Cardie-UFP stalemate.


The Feds ship have tended to be of comparable size to the other powers, or at least of comparable power which is more relevant. It would be of a closer make up to the Romulans than the Klingons. And the Federations fighting style is similar as well, Attack, cripple, with draw if losing. The Klingons tend to be more, attack, burn, piss on them, die in a blaze of glory.

I think a Caradassian/Romulan war would be very similar to the UFP/Cardassian war.

Especially as you mentioned, their intelligence agencies are equally good.

While the Romulans could do misinformation I think it would be a much smaller surprise, especially since the Cardassians would naturally have a huge sensor network around their boarder.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Granitehewer » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:06 pm

Teaos wrote:

The Feds ship have tended to be of comparable size to the other powers, or at least of comparable power which is more relevant. It would be of a closer make up to the Romulans than the Klingons.


I don't think that the UFP fleet is of closer make up to the RSE than the Klingons at all, Starfleet has Centaurs, Peregrines, Defiants, Mirandas and many small-medium vessels just like the Klingons.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:59 pm

Teaos wrote:The Feds ship have tended to be of comparable size to the other powers, or at least of comparable power which is more relevant. It would be of a closer make up to the Romulans than the Klingons.


Look at the size of a typical Fed ship. Then look at the size of a D'Deridex, which formed the overwhelming bulk of the front-line Romulan fleet during TNG and DS9. The Feds are dwarfed.

And the Federations fighting style is similar as well, Attack, cripple, with draw if losing.


We've seen very little of the Romulans' fighting style, other than they entered the war with a considerable number of effective (and surprise) strikes on Dominion positions, and later demonstrated a preference for receiving Dominion attacks in prepared positions rather than attacking Chin'toka.

I think a Caradassian/Romulan war would be very similar to the UFP/Cardassian war.


I don't - I think a society as militaristic as the Romulans would be much better prepared to take on the Cardassians on the ground, while retaining or exceeding the Federation's superiority in space.

While the Romulans could do misinformation I think it would be a much smaller surprise, especially since the Cardassians would naturally have a huge sensor network around their boarder.


Assuming such a network exists, for which we have no evidence, it would only tell them that they'd just been invaded. This would be utterly useless, as the large number of ships and colonies going up in smoke would inform them of that very soon afterwards. It certainly didn't help them when the Klingons invaded - Sisko's warning was of far greater use, as it allowed them to begin mobilisation before the attack was launched.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:13 pm

Look at the size of a typical Fed ship. Then look at the size of a D'Deridex, which formed the overwhelming bulk of the front-line Romulan fleet during TNG and DS9. The Feds are dwarfed.


Okay I'll give you that the Romulans build bigger. But I still think that is more or a negative than a positive. The polar opposite to the Klingon fleet.

I don't - I think a society as militaristic as the Romulans would be much better prepared to take on the Cardassians on the ground, while retaining or exceeding the Federation's superiority in space.


I dont think we have ever really seen the Romulans in ground warfare, apart from a mention in Nemesis that they use Remans as shock troops.

As for space battles, the Federation has shown to be superior to the Romulans in this field when in a fair fight, thus we can assume the Romulans would not fair better against the Cardassians.

Assuming such a network exists, for which we have no evidence, it would only tell them that they'd just been invaded. This would be utterly useless, as the large number of ships and colonies going up in smoke would inform them of that very soon afterwards. It certainly didn't help them when the Klingons invaded - Sisko's warning was of far greater use, as it allowed them to begin mobilisation before the attack was launched.


I think it would be a fairly safe assumption. Who wouldn't put a sensor grid on their boarder? Especially if that boarder is with the Romulans.

As you said, the Romulans have fewer larger ships, most likely unable to sow the massive chaos the Klingon fleet did. And in the end, be more easily countered.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Captain Seafort » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:27 pm

Teaos wrote:Okay I'll give you that the Romulans build bigger. But I still think that is more or a negative than a positive. The polar opposite to the Klingon fleet.


How exactly is having ships that can punch harder than anyone else's a negative?

I dont think we have ever really seen the Romulans in ground warfare, apart from a mention in Nemesis that they use Remans as shock troops.


We've frequently seen the Feds in ground warfare. They're crap.

As for space battles, the Federation has shown to be superior to the Romulans in this field when in a fair fight, thus we can assume the Romulans would not fair better against the Cardassians.


Since when? Of the three in TOS the only one-on-one was an exceptionally close fight. The only engagement involving D'Dderidexes was an alpha strike that almost knocked out the E-D's shields. Every other time one side or the other backed off to avoid starting a war, not out of any concern about their tactical position.

As you said, the Romulans have fewer larger ships, most likely unable to sow the massive chaos the Klingon fleet did. And in the end, be more easily countered.


A fleet of battleships countered by a fleet of light cruisers? Don't be stupid. The Cardies would certainly have fewer problems with raiders striking at undefended positions, but that small advantage is overwhelmed by the force the Romulans would be able to put into their main punches.
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Re: The Way of the Romulan.

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:49 pm

How exactly is having ships that can punch harder than anyone else's a negative?


Few bigger, rather than many smaller. Easier to counter fewer attacks. The attacks would cause more damage but would be easier to respond to.

We've frequently seen the Feds in ground warfare. They're crap.


Doesnt mean the Romulans arent equally crap. Federation is full of Vulcans who are Buddhist Romulans.

Since when? Of the three in TOS the only one-on-one was an exceptionally close fight. The only engagement involving D'Dderidexes was an alpha strike that almost knocked out the E-D's shields. Every other time one side or the other backed off to avoid starting a war, not out of any concern about their tactical position.


The only way the Romulans come close to matching the federation is with the advantage of cloak and sneak attacks. Take that advantage away and it would swing more in favor of the Federation.

So while the intial strike would be devestating maybe, the smaller numbers of ships and the inability to hold positions and occupy territory while cloaked would be much easier for them to be countered.

A fleet of battleships countered by a fleet of light cruisers? Don't be stupid. The Cardies would certainly have fewer problems with raiders striking at undefended positions, but that small advantage is overwhelmed by the force the Romulans would be able to put into their main punches.


I would call the Cardasian ships pocket battleships more than cruisers, heavily armed and armored for their size.

They certinly could hold off a GCS and we assume other powerful Federation designs, so they shouldnt have much trouble with the Romulans. 2-3 Galors or Keldons would be a hard fight.
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