The Asshole Directive

The Next Generation
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Harley Filben
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The Asshole Directive

Post by Harley Filben »

OK I was just watched the episodes "Symbiosis" and "Pen Pals" since my TV network is showing reruns of TNG. I remembered this episode only vaguely as it was many years since I've seen it and... wow.
An entire freaking race addicted to a drug and Picard calls it a symbiosis. Uhuh sure Mr. Asshole.
I just love his speech in the end when he harps about the sanctity of the Prime Directive even though he just found a convenient way to "bend it" thus proving that Directive was WRONG.

I guess I'm not really angry at the fictional Picard as with the writers. Honestly what are these people smoking when writing up these prime directive episodes? The most disturbing thing is how they constantly point to Earth history as proof that any contact with less advanced civilizations will end in disaster even though those disasters were brought on by more advanced civilizations colonizing, exploiting, enslaving and exterminating the less advanced civilizations not by the less advanced civilization being "too primitive" for the contact.
It's almost as if they are trying to whitewash the European and later US colonial era crimes against Africans, Asians and Native Americans by saying that it was really their fault for being so primitive and that even if they came in peace the result would still be a disaster.

Then we move onto the Pen Pals. How can any person write that script and not realize he made the characters utterly EVIL?
Oh sure Picard gives us a pathetic slippery slope fallacy: "What if there is a disease instead of a geological disaster? What if it's a war and millions die? What if it's an oppressive government?"
What if someone gets bitten by a wasp Picard? What if a child steals a chewing gum from a supermarket Picard? :roll:
After Picard finishes delivering his pompous self-righteous speech Data suggests that Sarjenka's transmission could be considered a call for help and Picard accuses Data of....sophistry.
I honestly don't get it. A frightened little girl's home planet is falling apart around her and there is this huge meeting over whether they should go in and save her? And no one read the script and said "wow this sure makes them and their Federation heartless bastards"!
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Post by Mikey »

OK, calm down...

I had kinda thought the point of the ep was in fact to make us questions these things.
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Post by mlsnoopy »

It is internal politic. Does USA invades China becuse China is an opresed natione. No. The same is with the Federation, the drugs are internal matter of two planets. One is rich and one is poor. So it is a common capitalistic mentality let us exploit them.

How soon would the create a religion based upon them. How long it would take them to think that they shoul help every primitive planet. And if the planet had no problems when would the start creating problems in other to solve them.
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Post by Tiberius »

I noticed that I would keep out of all the things that they had done to themselves. An oppressive government? No. It's not the Federation's job to make sure everyone has a government that Humans like. A natural disaster? Sure, help, so long as such help can be hidden so the natives don't know about it.
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Although I'm probably one of the more vocal detractors of the Prime Directive, you're going a bit overboard, don't you think? The Federation is not the Quadrant's police force, and so has no obligation to help other races.
I do agree with you over the Pen Pals incident though. The whole "we won't interfere with any culture that doesn't have warp drive" thing is retarded. The Federation happily sits around watching entire species become extinct simply because they weren't quick enough in building space ships.
Does USA invades China becuse China is an opresed natione. No.
*cough*Iraq*cough*
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Post by Harley Filben »

Mikey wrote:OK, calm down...
I had kinda thought the point of the ep was in fact to make us questions these things.
The problem is that there is nothing to question. Deciding whether you tell a civilization that they are being deliberately hooked to a drug or saving a lone girl survivor of a planet that is falling apart are no-brainers. There is no "difficult" choice here for anyone with a shred of decency.
And the conclusion is always: Prime Directive is right. Not once have I heard Picard say "well I guess it's time to rewrite Prime Directive to allow us to help in cases like these".
mlsnoopy wrote:It is internal politic. Does USA invades China becuse China is an opresed natione. No. The same is with the Federation, the drugs are internal matter of two planets. One is rich and one is poor. So it is a common capitalistic mentality let us exploit them.
These two planets were two separate nations so it was not a matter of internal politics. Secondly China is not a democracy but it's people are not particularly oppressed. Invading China to bring them democracy would cause far more problems than it would solve so obviously there is no comparison with the current case.
If you want an oppressive government take Nazis. What would Picard do about the Jew suffering I wonder?

mlsnoopy wrote:How soon would the create a religion based upon them. How long it would take them to think that they shoul help every primitive planet. And if the planet had no problems when would the start creating problems in other to solve them.
Why would they create a religion around them? They already achieved space flight and understand perfectly that Federation is simply another more advanced civilization. And yes Federation obviously should help every primitive planet if it's entire civilization is at a grave risk and help is as easy as telling them what is the problem. Or is that too big of a trouble for the mighty Federation?
Tiberius wrote:I noticed that I would keep out of all the things that they had done to themselves.
What does it mean "do it to themselves"? If a group of terrorists release an extremely potent virus shouldn't we help them? A nuclear reactor disaster around a densely populated area?
Tiberius wrote:An oppressive government? No. It's not the Federation's job to make sure everyone has a government that Humans like.

What do you mean by oppressive government? There is no democracy? Or do they have camps with "Arbeit macht frei" written on the gates?
Tiberus wrote:A natural disaster? Sure, help, so long as such help can be hidden so the natives don't know about it.
But if it can't be hidden let them die? I am honestly baffled at this logic. How can first contact possibly be any worse than dying?
What is it with this belief that pre-warp civilizations are so stupid and inflexible that they can't withstand the knowledge that there are other civilizations? We are a "pre-warp" civilization aren't we? If a volcano exploded in my backyard I would certainly want that any advanced starship parked in the orbit help me.
Rochey wrote:Although I'm probably one of the more vocal detractors of the Prime Directive, you're going a bit overboard, don't you think? The Federation is not the Quadrant's police force, and so has no obligation to help other races.
Are we talking about a legal or moral obligation? I don't think Federation must race around the quadrant searching for any civilization in distress but if they just happen to be in orbit or they know about suffering about a planet nearby then they certainly have a moral obligation to help.
Sure they don't legally have to but that doesn't make them any less of cold heartless bastards.
Personally I think it would've been awesome if Wormhole Aliens just recited Prime Directive to Sisko in "Sacrifice of Angels" and let Dominion fleet loose. Whoops! Not so high and mighty now are you.
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Post by Sionnach Glic »

Are we talking about a legal or moral obligation? I don't think Federation must race around the quadrant searching for any civilization in distress but if they just happen to be in orbit or they know about suffering about a planet nearby then they certainly have a moral obligation to help.
Sure they don't legally have to but that doesn't make them any less of cold heartless bastards.
That's what I meant. It's not their job to run around looking after every race in sight, but if a nearby race is in trouble, you might as well help.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Harley Filben wrote:If you want an oppressive government take Nazis. What would Picard do about the Jew suffering I wonder?
He'd wring his hands and complain about how terrible it was, but do sod all. We've seen this in practice - the Feds response to the Bajoran Occupation, where they refused to intervene due to the Prime Directive, despite the fact that they were at war with Cardassia at the time.
Tiberus wrote:A natural disaster? Sure, help, so long as such help can be hidden so the natives don't know about it.
But if it can't be hidden let them die? I am honestly baffled at this logic. How can first contact possibly be any worse than dying?
Even if it can be hidden the Feds refuse to intervene, as demonstrated by the fact that the "Pen Pals" incident was a direct violation of the PD. Even after this, Picard was even more strongly in favour of it, as demonstrated by his refusal to do anything to help the planet in "Homeward", and only cooperating when the civilisation in question was dumped in his lap (or holodeck as the case may.)
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Post by Mikey »

[quote"Harvey Filben"]If you want an oppressive government take Nazis. What would Picard do about the Jew suffering I wonder?
[/quote]

Talk about how terrible it was, but do nothing, like the US, England, and most other nations did at the onset.
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Post by Harley Filben »

Mikey wrote:Talk about how terrible it was, but do nothing, like the US, England, and most other nations did at the onset.
Exactly but these countries look back on their inaction with shame. Picard, on the other hand, would pompously declare their non interference as laudable because revealing themselves to Auschwitz prisoners would be too traumatic for the poor primitive Jews.
Then he would ramble on about how, even though it permits unspeakable evil, Prime Directive is actually oh-so wise and very correct. Because, you know, it just is. OK?
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Post by mwhittington »

But don't forget he did help the B'aku in Insurrection, violating direct orders in order to uphold the spirit of the Prime Directive. He thought that relocating the B'aku to another system in order to harvest the metaphasic radiation was in direct violation of the PD, because the Fed was "returning them to their natural course of evolution", to which Picard replied, "Who the hell are we to determine the next course of evolution for these people", then later acted on his moral compass to help them. I know parts of the PD are horribly flawed, but the PD is there for a reason, the same way any national government has laws that are flawed, but the whole system of laws is there for a reason.
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Post by Captain Seafort »

Ironic, that Picard would engage in so much handwringing over saving species from extinction, but jump in feet-first to support a bunch of selfish luddites.
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Post by colmquinn »

Maybe its a hangover from the Vulcans, it said in FC that they weren't interestd in humans or earth cause we were too primitive and they insisted that when the Fed was founded that their rule of non interference be kept on.
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Post by Blackstar the Chakat »

Captain Seafort wrote:Ironic, that Picard would engage in so much handwringing over saving species from extinction, but jump in feet-first to support a bunch of selfish luddites.
Ya, but remember there was a girl involved.
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Post by mlsnoopy »

*cough*Iraq*cough*
Which do you mean firs or second war.
But I can sum both up with one word. Oil.
These two planets were two separate nations so it was not a matter of internal politics. Secondly China is not a democracy but it's people are not particularly oppressed. Invading China to bring them democracy would cause far more problems than it would solve so obviously there is no comparison with the current case.
If you want an oppressive government take Nazis. What would Picard do about the Jew suffering I wonder
If you were a German yor life was excelent. To the most of the populatione the Nazis were the seviors of Germen nation. You know that the were elected to power. If Picard would come to orbit he woudn't do anything. We alone were able to solve that problem. But since the nazis we had Ruanda, Darfur, Camodia, Stalin, Cecenija, taht are all cases of genocide and the world did't do anythin agains them.
Thier are the same usa wanting to force democracy on china. Or Picard forcing its law on the planets.
And we have the planet that wanted to join the federation but thy locked away thier human weapons. Or we have the sexslave that they transported.
Why would they create a religion around them? They already achieved space flight and understand perfectly that Federation is simply another more advanced civilization. And yes Federation obviously should help every primitive planet if it's entire civilization is at a grave risk and help is as easy as telling them what is the problem. Or is that too big of a trouble for the mighty Federation?
Well a misterios force from space saves your civilization. They are primitive, well that saund like the begining of a religion. And I was talking abaut the girl situation.
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