Captain Jean-Luc Picard to Return?

[DarkMoineau]

Yeah I share that sentiment.

In First Contact, Data state Earth have 9 bilions Borg so we can assume it should have been 9 billions humans: more than today but less than it could have been if it was Fifht Element. So the excess humans would be on diverses colonies that ranges from little settlement to millions of peoples on perfectly autonomous colonies.

In the same time, as you say, only 10 000 Vulcans survives the destruction of their Planets, but Vulcans seems not interested to colonise a lot of place, more keeping a safe belt of world around their world in Enterprise (which include Andorian worlds) and we also know Vulcans are really lustful during Ponn Farr, every 7 years.... Humans are usually more interested by sex.

So members can indeed vary greatly in number of planets and population, helping humans have such a huge impact on Starfleet and the Federaiton. We are the literral cannon fodder of the Federation.

[bladela]

In First Contact, Data state Earth have 9 bilions Borg so we can assume it should have been 9 billions humans: more than today but less than it could have been if it was Fifht Element. So the excess humans would be on diverses colonies that ranges from little settlement to millions of peoples on perfectly autonomous colonies.

it is also plausible that the borg have a little "overpopulated the planet" (which did not seem to pass it very well ^ _ ^) and that the human population (under the UFP) is actually lower ... maybe even smaller than the current one.

I don't expect any planet on a similar level of population (at best a few millions...) for internal growth alone, not even those of older colonization (i.e Terra Nova)

[DarkMoineau]

It is indeed plausible.

It could also be WWIII population if Borg keep the same levels but

1) it seems a little high for a planet who just had a nuclear war and has not recovered from nuclear winter (winter clothing in April during First Contact)
2) TNG stated there was efforts to create a new continent on Earth in 2367 (New Atlanti Project) despite the existence of stellar colonies for population and replicator to provide food. So an overpopulated Earth is clearly a fact during the 24th century.

[bladela]

It also depends on the populations expectations, in particular housing needs, in the 24th century,

For example, it is conceivable a lower urban population than today (after all I do not see anymore the need to live close to the workplace with their technology, one could very well live in a country house in New Zealand and get to work in Chicago in just a few minutes).

It would fit well for me with the vision of "paradise planet" that we have for example in ds9.

[DarkMoineau]

Indeed public teleporter system means you can live anywhere and go anywhere... as long as it is on Earth.

[Graham Kennedy]

In First Contact, Data state Earth have 9 bilions Borg so we can assume it should have been 9 billions humans: more than today but less than it could have been if it was Fifht Element. So the excess humans would be on diverses colonies that ranges from little settlement to millions of peoples on perfectly autonomous colonies.

it is also plausible that the borg have a little "overpopulated the planet" (which did not seem to pass it very well ^ _ ^) and that the human population (under the UFP) is actually lower ... maybe even smaller than the current one.

I don't expect any planet on a similar level of population (at best a few millions...) for internal growth alone, not even those of older colonization (i.e Terra Nova)

I believe the most populous Federation colony world that we've ever heard of is Deneva, with "almost a million" people.

As for Earth, we don't really know. IIRC the novelisation of TMP said that the Earth's population was surprisingly low, in the 200 million range. Other non canon sources have given numbers in the billions. Either way, it's probably more than all Earth's colonies put together if Deneva is a guide.

[bladela]

I believe the most populous Federation colony world that we've ever heard of is Deneva, with "almost a million" people.

As for Earth, we don't really know. IIRC the novelisation of TMP said that the Earth's population was surprisingly low, in the 200 million range. Other non canon sources have given numbers in the billions. Either way, it's probably more than all Earth's colonies put together if Deneva is a guide.

i also think earth (or the entire solar system, the Moon hosts 50 million people in TNG, we have no info about Mars) still outnumbers the outer colonies by a very large factor.

Based on the moon number I find it hard to accept that the earth should not be at least ten, twenty times more populated.

A number of a few (2-3 to 5-6) billions is plausible for me.

Any internal growth would be largely counterbalanced by emigration to old and new colonies

[DarkMoineau]

novelisations are interesting but not cannon from what I understand. And it looks a lot like a typo error to have millions on humans on Earth in the 23rd century.

[Graham Kennedy]

novelisations are interesting but not cannon from what I understand. And it looks a lot like a typo error to have millions on humans on Earth in the 23rd century.

No, it was deliberate. My memory is hazy, but the line is something like "a resident of the 20th century would have been amazed to learn that the entire population of Earth was only 200 million..." and it goes on to say something about the big bustling cities of old are largely a thing of the past. Most of it was back to wilderness, and they liked it that way.

In fact it's not that weird an idea. Our current massive population is actually a historical anomaly caused by a combination of factors - the population for most of our history was indeed in the region of a couple of hundred million. Current predictions are that world population will peak at 12 billion and then start to fall. Nobody knows what it will decline to, but in hundreds of years we may indeed wind up with a substantially smaller population.


And yes, it's not canon. And indeed, it was written at a time when we'd never seen Earth in Trek before. Now we've seen that at least some cities survive, but we still have no real idea of what the population is.

[DarkMoineau]

novelisations are interesting but not cannon from what I understand. And it looks a lot like a typo error to have millions on humans on Earth in the 23rd century.

No, it was deliberate. My memory is hazy, but the line is something like "a resident of the 20th century would have been amazed to learn that the entire population of Earth was only 200 million..." and it goes on to say something about the big bustling cities of old are largely a thing of the past. Most of it was back to wilderness, and they liked it that way.

In fact it's not that weird an idea. Our current massive population is actually a historical anomaly caused by a combination of factors - the population for most of our history was indeed in the region of a couple of hundred million. Current predictions are that world population will peak at 12 billion and then start to fall. Nobody knows what it will decline to, but in hundreds of years we may indeed wind up with a substantially smaller population.


And yes, it's not canon. And indeed, it was written at a time when we'd never seen Earth in Trek before. Now we've seen that at least some cities survive, but we still have no real idea of what the population is.

That's interesting for sure.

It seems strange to me but that's interesting.

[bladela]

In fact it's not that weird an idea. Our current massive population is actually a historical anomaly caused by a combination of factors - the population for most of our history was indeed in the region of a couple of hundred million. Current predictions are that world population will peak at 12 billion and then start to fall. Nobody knows what it will decline to, but in hundreds of years we may indeed wind up with a substantially smaller population.

I do not know how such a small population can maintain a starfleet of thousands of ships or how the federation can suffer billions of victims in the Dominion war

[Graham Kennedy]

I do not know how such a small population can maintain a starfleet of thousands of ships

A Starfleet of 10,000 ships with an average crew of 300 is only 3,000,000 people. Put as many again in Starbases and it's 6,000,000 - which is only 3% of a 200,000,000 population. And remember, Starfleet doesn't just draw their crew from Earth.

As for industrial capacity, the presumption was that Federation tech allows vastly greater industrial capacity per capita. Which is not unreasonable.

or how the federation can suffer billions of victims in the Dominion war

The book way predated those figures. I think they probably have in mind an Earth population in the billions these days.

[bladela]

A Starfleet of 10,000 ships with an average crew of 300 is only 3,000,000 people. Put as many again in Starbases and it's 6,000,000 - which is only 3% of a 200,000,000 population. And remember, Starfleet doesn't just draw their crew from Earth.

an enlisted percentage of 3% in a volontary military (ok...semi-military) force is a huge number for me

for comparison the US currently enlists about the 0.5% of their population.

https://www.cfr.org/article/demographics-us-military

[Graham Kennedy]

But they could enlist more, if they wanted.

And again, this would be the number for the whole UFP, not just Earth.

[DarkMoineau]

To enlish peoples you have:

1) to find volunteer
2) Volunteers must fit the criteria of choice
3) Volunteers must finish the training with satisfying result.

It's still huge to get 3% of 200 000 000 peoples and humans clearly are the main source of officers in Starfleet, no matter which show we are talking about...