Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

The Next Generation

Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:14 pm

Yup, Klingons didn't seem to lose their culture and history, just revised their focus on it. There was never a shortage of Klingon talk on different forms of religion and art and music.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:14 pm

"You didn't believe all Klingons were soldiers?"
"I guess I did."
"My father was a teacher. My mother, a biologist at the university. They encouraged me to take up the law. Now, all young people want to do is to take up weapons as soon as they can hold them. They're told there is honor in victory – any victory. What honor is there in a victory over a weaker opponent? Had Duras destroyed that ship, he would have been lauded as a hero of the Empire for murdering helpless refugees. We were a great society, not so long ago. When honor was earned through integrity and acts of true courage, not senseless bloodshed."
"For thousands of years, my people had similar problems. We fought three world wars that almost destroyed us. Whole generations were nearly wiped out."
"What changed?"
"A few courageous people began to realize... they could make a difference."
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:15 pm

Exactly just a refocus, neglecting some previously treasured areas.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:16 pm

If the moderators will allow it I was hoping to save space and just ask about UFP-KE ship comparisons on this thread...
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Teaos » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:20 pm

Go for it, we can always split it latter if needed.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:34 pm

Thanks Teaos!
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:38 pm

I'm absolutely terrible at analysing Trek episodes and work on instinct which clearly isn't cannon or even a peashooter.
I was wondering what people thought (ignoring Graham's wonderful lists of stats) about the Vor'Cha attack cruiser compared to the Galaxy class (pre-refit) in a one-to-one confrontation, both with regular crew in a region of space that wouldn't give any vessel any addition advantages.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:57 pm

In a straight up fight, the GCS has a clear advantage due to her PTLs. 1v1 its the massively expensive and just massive GCS facing the far smaller and very very likely a hell of a lot cheaper. Its like a King Tiger vs a Sherman.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:44 pm

If we compare the Vor'Cha to a Sherman Firefly then we get bloody respectable punching prowess just a far weaker hull.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:44 pm

Is it canon that the Vor'Cha incorporates UFP tech?
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Deepcrush » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:17 pm

Granitehewer wrote:Is it canon that the Vor'Cha incorporates UFP tech?


Not that I've ever heard, they don't appear to support anything but Klingon designs that I've ever seen.

Granitehewer wrote:If we compare the Vor'Cha to a Sherman Firefly then we get bloody respectable punching prowess just a far weaker hull.


That wouldn't be to far off, the Vorcha does pack a lot of fire power for her size. But thats the issue, she's the KE's answer to the GCS/Neb and she's only half the size with a limited field of fire.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:19 pm

I read a lot of designer's notes about the Vor'Cha design from nacelles to colouring that it was supposed to imply an assimilation of Federation technology but I'm not sure if it is a case of valid unless disproved in an episode/film or merely totally invalid and conjecture.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:22 pm

I wonder how many Vor'Cha could be built in a set time compared to Galaxy or Nebula Class...
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Atekimogus » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:30 pm

Granitehewer wrote:Is it canon that the Vor'Cha incorporates UFP tech?


Not to my knowledge, the designer - Andrew Probert - however made a mention that he made the concience decision to incooperate similar elements (like the warp nacelles) to show that there indeed have been cooperation and joint developments.

As for a 1on1 comparision I think the King Tiger vs Sherman comparison was very apt, however it goes a bit beyond that insofer the King Tiger was made for battle and nothing else wheras the GCS had tons of non-battle-related equipment on board.

As for the cheapness of the vorcha....who knows it seems a fair assumption but then what do "we" know about the costs of building a 24th century spaceship? Maybe size is a mayor factor, maybe the equipment like the nacelles, warpcore and impulse-engine are the cost drivers wheras the simple hull is cheap as shit since it can more easily replicated.

Since it is also semi-canonical that they build 6 - I believe - complete GCS and for 6 GCS only the hulls - to be completed at a later date IF needed I would assume that only the hullstructure without equipment is actually easy and cheap as shit to built (also explaining how they could built a spacedock without ruining their economy for years) wheras the real costs are warpcores, nacelles etc. .

If so, a Vorcha should still be cheaper to build, but not so much as we might assume. Let's just say that a Vorcha and a GCS-Battle-Section are pretty much on par cost/sizewise and the added bonus/cost of the GCS is mainly in the saucer-section which is probalby -altough much bigger - less expensive than the battle-section since it is mostly living space aka a hotel with labs.
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Re: Yesterday's Enterprise by the roots

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:42 pm

Infrastructure is important too, the Klingons may have their system geared to pump out ships at a faster rate than you'd assume based purely on economics, a bit gestalt.
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