On matters of mice and Ferengi...

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On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:59 pm

We've seen/heard that the Ferengi D'Kora class Marauder is ''impressive'' or at least I vaguely remember Picard saying something similar in The last Outpost, and so I was wondering if anyone cared to postulate how powerful they thought the Ferengi navy might actually be.
Whether the fleet could be centralised and utilised as a conventional force or whether gathering the Daimons might prove a difficult task, also what about the economic impact of the Ferengi Alliance? Does anyone think that they could substantially gain more influence in the galactic neighbourhood and ascend to a more influential status via regime change for example?
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Mikey » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:56 pm

Pete, is that really you? ;)

Anyhow, Picard seemed to consider the Marauder to be a match for the E-D, or at least powerful enough to be dangerous. Be that as it may, the DaiMons seem to be independent businessmen - some may be clever enough to cooperate with each other - at leat when fiscally beneficial - but some seem to bear naked antipathy for any others. I don't see that group forming a cohesive navy anytime soon, especially with Ferengi culture focusing as it does on individual gain rather than any sort of "national" goals.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Coalition » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:31 pm

What I'd like to see is the Ferengi blatantly violating the Prime Directive, selling tech to lower civilizations, both to make a profit, and to raise the standard of living at the planet. This provides a market for future Ferengi products, and if Starfleet tries to intervene, the planet's economy will crash, killing billions. The Ferengi look at the Prime Directive, and the willingness of the Federation to let planets go their own way as barbaric, since it kills millions (billions) of sentient beings (future customers).

Basically make the Ferengi so they steadily maneuver to own all the industry, banking, and transportation on a target planet, and the whole planet is a mass of customers. The whole place becomes their own private fief, and it is all legal. They could even have ruinous taxes, but the overall standard of living is higher so the people have more take-home pay. (I.e. prior taxes were 40%, current taxes are 80%, but the pre-tax pay is 5 times higher, so people take home 66.7% more thank to the Ferengi). Best of all, it would be completely legal.

The only way I can see a Ferengi fleet on the show is if a single Ferengi has sufficient resources to afford owning multiple ships, and hires mercenaries to Captain/crew them. Essentially, his private navy. If he has Ferengi in charge, they are told that the ship belongs to him, and that he will replace it if they use it well. Of course, you then get into fun definitions about using it well, etc. Withdrawing in the face of the enemy every time will result in being removed due to cowardice (or wasting fuel, since an enemy ship could have been shot at and damaged in the meantime), while standing in the face of a horde is stupidity, since the ship would be destroyed for no real gain.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Granitehewer » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:05 pm

I think that the Ferengi could create quite a hegemony with many less developed races especially those less than enamoured with the strict Federation rules.
I'm curious also as to a hypothetical scenario in which the Ferengi Alliance is invaded, do we see collaboration and dissension within the Alliance, Ferenginar calling in debts/bribing officials of the major powers or armies of mercenaries and minor races mounting a defence?
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Mikey » Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:57 pm

I think it's very difficult to try and "invade" the Ferengi, since the Ferengi government seems to be a singular village elder, a cultural-taboo enforcement agency, and... nothing else. There doesn't seem to be any sort of entity of state for the Ferengi; there is no law since the Ferengi must abide (willingly or not) by the law of the culture amongst which the Ferengi individual lives/trade, there is no agency for social disbursements/public works/etc. since the Ferengi believe in the most extreme form of economic Darwinism, etc. A state may invade the planet of Ferenginar, but that would do precious little to the Ferengi race since each Ferengi individual or cartel operates on its own. A group of Ferengi conducting trade on planet "X," for example, may hear of the fall of Ferenginar with little feeling save an interest in acquiring the business contacts of any business operators that may have died.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Jim » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:53 pm

Rule of Acquisition #34: War is good for business

While that rule would make it seem like they would be willing to arm both sides in a conflict... I do not see the Ferengi as a war-monger type. I think that while if war happens they exploit it, I do not think they consider going and looking for it, much less starting it. At some point the risk becomes too great to offset potential profit levels.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Captain Seafort » Sun Sep 09, 2012 7:26 pm

Jim wrote:Rule of Acquisition #34: War is good for business

While that rule would make it seem like they would be willing to arm both sides in a conflict... I do not see the Ferengi as a war-monger type. I think that while if war happens they exploit it, I do not think they consider going and looking for it, much less starting it. At some point the risk becomes too great to offset potential profit levels.


Of course. Don't forget Rule of Acquisition Number 35.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Granitehewer » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:54 pm

Of course we have number 45 too which could be suitably utilised for a war rather than a merely economic battleground.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:19 am

If war happens, profit from it. If peace happens, profit from it. That's the Ferengi way!
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Teaos » Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:12 pm

I think the Ferengi we see are best compared to the English Privateers of the 1700-1800s, officially not under command of the Crown... "officially, but they would have access to all the tech and resources their money can buy.

And while I doubt they work together in the way most of the local powers fleets do. Ferengi to hold quite a bit of loyality to their home and to their species and if their was a true threat to them... I have no doubt they would join and kick some arse.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Mikey » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:54 pm

IDK about the "privateers" reference. Privateers were essentially just buccaneers who were granted clemency so long as they kept their piracy directed at one side or another, and I don't think Ferengi generally have the stomach for battle to be mercenaries.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Coalition » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:07 am

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:If war happens, profit from it. If peace happens, profit from it. That's the Ferengi way!


If war, sell to both sides, and whoever wins, they owe you their planet. When peace breaks out, sell them consumer goods, but not the industry to make their own. Presto, the whole planet is your own private home, with your own set of consumers. The locals are hired to build more Marauders, for the skilled subordinates to go off and make their own fiefdom. They owe you for the ship, so they will be sending you payments as well.

So feudalism, but via debts instead of obligations. Now to imagine what the oaths of indebtedness would be like. "I serve you, with coin and service, my properties are yours to call upon as asked." "I own you, and you have value. If you are threatened, I will be there."

Of course, the debt lord only says he will be there, not that he will aid, or come up with a better deal with anyone attacking and cut out the original Ferengi. This would tend to encourage Ferengi to keep strict control over their debt-realms, to make sure their boss never has a competitor. Their boss on the other hand, might encourage competition among underlings, to keep them sharp, and to get a better deal. Lots of work in the shadows here, plus RP opportunity.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Teaos » Wed Sep 12, 2012 1:30 pm

Well there certainly seems to be a bit of diversity in Ferengi. The ones we see the most, Quark and his family, are undoubtedly cowards. But we have several examples of them being being quite cunning and brace... or if not brave at least willing to take risks.

I can see Ferengi under a strong Nagus being privateers. It would certainly be a strong bargaining chip.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Mikey » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:20 pm

Perhaps if the prizes are great enough. The problem is that of what we've seen of war in 'Trek, most of the action seems to be warship v. warship, with relatively little in the way of mercantile shipping. Replicators, and all that. If there is considerable commercial shipping, then privateering might be an option after all.
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Re: On matters of mice and Ferengi...

Postby Teaos » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:39 pm

One would imagine there must be a lto and we just dont see it since we mostly see the flagship of the fleet which has very little to do with it. We see a bit around DS9 which was originally out in the outskirts.

But your right that we dont see it so cant really say for sure.
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