Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

The Next Generation
stitch626
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
Posts: 9585
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:57 pm
Location: NY
Contact:

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by stitch626 »

I always took their statement to mean they rejected all electronic tech. As far as I could tell, they didn't have electricity.

Taking the statement to be absolute is directly in contradiction to the film (since they did use simple tech), whereas my interpretation isn't.
No trees were killed in transmission of this message. However, some electrons were mildly inconvenienced.
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
Posts: 15548
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 1:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Captain Seafort »

stitch626 wrote:Taking the statement to be absolute is directly in contradiction to the film
Far from it: it's a statement of belief, not of reality, and the statement is absolutist in its original form. No interpretation needed.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Sonic Glitch
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6026
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 am
Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Sonic Glitch »

The exchange goes like this:
I believe the Captain finds it
hard to believe that we'd have
any skills repairing a positronic
device...

SOJEF
Our technological abilities
aren't apparent because we've
chosen not to employ them in our
daily lives. We believe when you
create a machine to do the work
of a man, you take something away
from the man.


ANIJ
(don't take us
lightly)
But at one time, we explored the
galaxy just as you do...
Taken from the script on trekcore.
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11561
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK
Contact:

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Graham Kennedy »

Well, what he says does apply to any machine... but what he does NOT say is that they therefore don't use any machines. The policy of "We therefore use only quite simple machines below a certain technology level, so as to balance the amount we 'give up' to machines with what we regard as an acceptable standard of living" would be perfectly consistent with what he said.

What I find curious is that they were apparently able to fix Data. The implication of the dialogue is that they do have all sorts of high tech gadgets lying around, but just abstain from using them in their normal lives. You have to wonder why they bother to keep a stockpile of stuff on hand that they never need.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
mwhittington
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1313
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:49 pm
Location: Gridley, CA.

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by mwhittington »

I thought Geordi fixed Data by removing his affected memory engrams, but I may be wrong.
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." -Benjamin Franklin-
SolkaTruesilver
Commander
Commander
Posts: 1406
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:49 am

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by SolkaTruesilver »

mwhittington wrote:I thought Geordi fixed Data by removing his affected memory engrams, but I may be wrong.
And I am sure he used a fancy sonic screwdriver to do just that.

Unless you think you can modify positronic memory engrams with a wheelbarrow.
Sonic Glitch
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
Posts: 6026
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 2:11 am
Location: Any ol' place here on Earth or in space. You pick the century and I'll pick the spot

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Sonic Glitch »

GrahamKennedy wrote:Well, what he says does apply to any machine... but what he does NOT say is that they therefore don't use any machines. The policy of "We therefore use only quite simple machines below a certain technology level, so as to balance the amount we 'give up' to machines with what we regard as an acceptable standard of living" would be perfectly consistent with what he said.

What I find curious is that they were apparently able to fix Data. The implication of the dialogue is that they do have all sorts of high tech gadgets lying around, but just abstain from using them in their normal lives. You have to wonder why they bother to keep a stockpile of stuff on hand that they never need.
They probably still have the knowledge -- and likely access to the Federation duck blind once Data Went Crazy. Presumably they could have used their knowledge (since they are evidently rather old) and the equipment at the duck blind, and been unable to fully repair Data.
"All this has happened before --"
"But it doesn't have to happen again. Not if we make up our minds to change. Take a different path. Right here, right now."
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Mikey »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:If you and I were having a conversation about how I avoid modern transportation technology, and I then got into my ICE car and drove away, you would know that my comment must refer to some transportation technology subsequent to IC technology.
No, I'd simply consider you a hypocrite, just as I consider the Baku hypocrites.
If you are going to talk specifically about the fact of that bit of colloquial speech referring to something which is plainly deemed to be understood to be excluded from such a reference
It's a pretty absolute statement. I interpret it as simple hypocrisy: they'll use technology whenever they consider it too inconvenient not to, but they'll continue pedalling their luddite drivel.
Your steadfast intent to interpret it in a way so patently ridiculous - not to mention contrary to the way the scene appeared - is nothing more than a determination to force your interpretation to fit a presupposition, facts be damned.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Coalition
Lieutenant Commander
Lieutenant Commander
Posts: 1142
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:34 am
Location: Georgia, United States
Contact:

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Coalition »

They could limit it to wind, water, and muscle power to provide the energy needed for their technology. So windmills, water wheels, and looms/spinning wheels are acceptable, but wood boiling water to make a steam engine would not. From there, you get ideas to use the power supplies better. I.e. if you need a constant power supply, you might use a water wheel. If the water is not that reliable, you can make a dam to store the water for release as needed. Another idea might be linking a windmill to a water lift, to move water back above the dam, so it can be reused.

Fire would be used to melt iron and harden various clays for the blacksmith and the buildings.

I wonder, what sort of technology they could develop under those limitations? Waterwheel pumping water up (Pumped storage) for usage by a Cam hammer (or few) to pound the metal, with another set of gears providing power to a set of bellows for the blacksmith. One blacksmith is all the labor that is needed to use the facility, but it will take a lot of work to set up.
Relativity Calculator
My Nomination for "MVAM Critic Award" (But can it be broken into 3 separate pieces?)
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
Posts: 35635
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 3:04 am
Commendations: The Daystrom Award
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA
Contact:

Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Post by Mikey »

Indeed, cam hammers were used (IIRC) as early as the 15th c. in central Europe, and I don't recall any tech regularly by the Ba'ku being much past that point.
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Post Reply