Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby stitch626 » Mon Feb 20, 2012 10:56 pm

I always took their statement to mean they rejected all electronic tech. As far as I could tell, they didn't have electricity.

Taking the statement to be absolute is directly in contradiction to the film (since they did use simple tech), whereas my interpretation isn't.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Captain Seafort » Mon Feb 20, 2012 11:03 pm

stitch626 wrote:Taking the statement to be absolute is directly in contradiction to the film


Far from it: it's a statement of belief, not of reality, and the statement is absolutist in its original form. No interpretation needed.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Sonic Glitch » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:24 am

The exchange goes like this:

I believe the Captain finds it
hard to believe that we'd have
any skills repairing a positronic
device...

SOJEF
Our technological abilities
aren't apparent because we've
chosen not to employ them in our
daily lives. We believe when you
create a machine to do the work
of a man, you take something away
from the man.


ANIJ
(don't take us
lightly)
But at one time, we explored the
galaxy just as you do...


Taken from the script on trekcore.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Graham Kennedy » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:35 am

Well, what he says does apply to any machine... but what he does NOT say is that they therefore don't use any machines. The policy of "We therefore use only quite simple machines below a certain technology level, so as to balance the amount we 'give up' to machines with what we regard as an acceptable standard of living" would be perfectly consistent with what he said.

What I find curious is that they were apparently able to fix Data. The implication of the dialogue is that they do have all sorts of high tech gadgets lying around, but just abstain from using them in their normal lives. You have to wonder why they bother to keep a stockpile of stuff on hand that they never need.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby mwhittington » Tue Feb 21, 2012 12:54 am

I thought Geordi fixed Data by removing his affected memory engrams, but I may be wrong.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby SolkaTruesilver » Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:32 am

mwhittington wrote:I thought Geordi fixed Data by removing his affected memory engrams, but I may be wrong.


And I am sure he used a fancy sonic screwdriver to do just that.

Unless you think you can modify positronic memory engrams with a wheelbarrow.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Sonic Glitch » Tue Feb 21, 2012 2:19 am

GrahamKennedy wrote:Well, what he says does apply to any machine... but what he does NOT say is that they therefore don't use any machines. The policy of "We therefore use only quite simple machines below a certain technology level, so as to balance the amount we 'give up' to machines with what we regard as an acceptable standard of living" would be perfectly consistent with what he said.

What I find curious is that they were apparently able to fix Data. The implication of the dialogue is that they do have all sorts of high tech gadgets lying around, but just abstain from using them in their normal lives. You have to wonder why they bother to keep a stockpile of stuff on hand that they never need.

They probably still have the knowledge -- and likely access to the Federation duck blind once Data Went Crazy. Presumably they could have used their knowledge (since they are evidently rather old) and the equipment at the duck blind, and been unable to fully repair Data.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Mikey » Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:35 am

Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:If you and I were having a conversation about how I avoid modern transportation technology, and I then got into my ICE car and drove away, you would know that my comment must refer to some transportation technology subsequent to IC technology.


No, I'd simply consider you a hypocrite, just as I consider the Baku hypocrites.

If you are going to talk specifically about the fact of that bit of colloquial speech referring to something which is plainly deemed to be understood to be excluded from such a reference


It's a pretty absolute statement. I interpret it as simple hypocrisy: they'll use technology whenever they consider it too inconvenient not to, but they'll continue pedalling their luddite drivel.


Your steadfast intent to interpret it in a way so patently ridiculous - not to mention contrary to the way the scene appeared - is nothing more than a determination to force your interpretation to fit a presupposition, facts be damned.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Coalition » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:23 am

They could limit it to wind, water, and muscle power to provide the energy needed for their technology. So windmills, water wheels, and looms/spinning wheels are acceptable, but wood boiling water to make a steam engine would not. From there, you get ideas to use the power supplies better. I.e. if you need a constant power supply, you might use a water wheel. If the water is not that reliable, you can make a dam to store the water for release as needed. Another idea might be linking a windmill to a water lift, to move water back above the dam, so it can be reused.

Fire would be used to melt iron and harden various clays for the blacksmith and the buildings.

I wonder, what sort of technology they could develop under those limitations? Waterwheel pumping water up (Pumped storage) for usage by a Cam hammer (or few) to pound the metal, with another set of gears providing power to a set of bellows for the blacksmith. One blacksmith is all the labor that is needed to use the facility, but it will take a lot of work to set up.
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Re: Nostalgia Critic : Star Trek Insurrection

Postby Mikey » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:20 am

Indeed, cam hammers were used (IIRC) as early as the 15th c. in central Europe, and I don't recall any tech regularly by the Ba'ku being much past that point.
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