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I gotta say, I have a certain fondness for early TNG. I know people pan it and I know the complaints are justified, but even so, I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence. Later Trek was far better, sure, but it lost that quality and I kinda miss it.

GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence.

TOS wasn't full of preachy bullshit.

"Fun Innocence," right up until that fun innocence almost got Wesley executed.

Then again maybe that does work with the fun part.

Saw this pic today. Seemed appropriate.

Captain Seafort wrote:

GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence.

TOS wasn't full of preachy bullshit.

... by an asshole.

Yeah. Never been a big fan of early TNG because Picard is a preachy asshole.

TOS had preachy bullshit in spades. The only difference was that while TNG was preachy about absolute morality, TOS was preachy about the UFP being better because it's us.

To be honest, I tend to view TOS in a different light because it was made in the 60's and was still a relatively new concept.

Early TNG was just finding itself. For example Picard became less of an asshole. Wesley went away and his later appearences were much better. Yar died off and gave Worf the spotlight which is a good trade. Crusher stayed Crusher. Riker got fat but sucked it in. Geordi pretty much stayed the same.

Captain Seafort wrote:

GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence.

TOS wasn't full of preachy bullshit.

Um, did you ever actually watch TOS?

I'd have to agree with what I think Graham is saying; Looking at it as TOS not being the first Trek I have ever seen (That was VOY; god help me), TOS seems so filled with a sort of puritanical evangelism about how caring and loving and moral everyone should be. What made it painful to watch was that it wasn't even really disguised at all. Early TNG had that same sense of high and mighty idealism, but it was never quite so quick to ram it down your throat as TOS seemed.

I've got little to base it off, I've only seen the first series of TOS, but it seemed so idealistic to be completely unreachable where TNG seemed mildly more realistic. Don't know how, just the impression I got.

TOS preaches trough actions thoug, TNG made speaches, lazy writing.

There was plenty of pontificating in TOS, too.

Teaos wrote:TOS preaches trough actions thoug, TNG made speaches, lazy writing.

Personally, I'd rather have the speech. In any case, my statement was just a general feeling.

There was plenty of speech-making by Kirk, but the hamminess made it palatable for me. Plus, Kirk had some good speeches.

Again, I can't help but wonder why the hell a civilian child was allowed on the surface of a planet interacting with a culture of which SF didn't even have basic knowledge of something that simple.