Justice

The Next Generation

Re: Justice

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:12 pm

I gotta say, I have a certain fondness for early TNG. I know people pan it and I know the complaints are justified, but even so, I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence. Later Trek was far better, sure, but it lost that quality and I kinda miss it.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8281
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Justice

Postby Captain Seafort » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:17 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence.


TOS wasn't full of preachy bullshit.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.

Across the Universe - Chapter 2 now up
User avatar
Captain Seafort
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 15016
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:44 pm
Location: Blighty

Re: Justice

Postby Tyyr » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:22 pm

"Fun Innocence," right up until that fun innocence almost got Wesley executed.

Then again maybe that does work with the fun part.
User avatar
Tyyr
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 10654
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:49 pm
Location: Jeri Ryan's Dressing Room, Shhhhh

Re: Justice

Postby kostmayer » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:29 pm

Saw this pic today. Seemed appropriate.

Image
"You ain't gonna get off down the trail a mile or two, and go missing your wife or something, like our last cook done, are you?"
"My wife is in hell, where I sent her. She could make good biscuits, but her behavior was terrible."
User avatar
kostmayer
Captain
Captain
 
Posts: 2788
Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:08 am

Re: Justice

Postby McAvoy » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:44 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence.


TOS wasn't full of preachy bullshit.


... by an asshole.

Yeah. Never been a big fan of early TNG because Picard is a preachy asshole.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 4005
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Justice

Postby Mikey » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:46 pm

TOS had preachy bullshit in spades. The only difference was that while TNG was preachy about absolute morality, TOS was preachy about the UFP being better because it's us.
"We've been over this. We don't shoot first and ask questions later."
"Of course! We never ask questions."
User avatar
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 33177
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:04 am
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA

Re: Justice

Postby McAvoy » Mon Aug 01, 2011 6:51 pm

To be honest, I tend to view TOS in a different light because it was made in the 60's and was still a relatively new concept.

Early TNG was just finding itself. For example Picard became less of an asshole. Wesley went away and his later appearences were much better. Yar died off and gave Worf the spotlight which is a good trade. Crusher stayed Crusher. Riker got fat but sucked it in. Geordi pretty much stayed the same.
"Don't underestimate the power of technobabble: the Federation can win anything with the sheer force of bullshit"
User avatar
McAvoy
Rear Admiral
Rear Admiral
 
Posts: 4005
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 1:39 am
Location: East Windsor, NJ

Re: Justice

Postby Graham Kennedy » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:47 pm

Captain Seafort wrote:
GrahamKennedy wrote:I think it had a bit of the same vibe that TOS did, a sort of fun innocence.


TOS wasn't full of preachy bullshit.

Um, did you ever actually watch TOS?
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8281
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Justice

Postby Reliant121 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:14 am

I'd have to agree with what I think Graham is saying; Looking at it as TOS not being the first Trek I have ever seen (That was VOY; god help me), TOS seems so filled with a sort of puritanical evangelism about how caring and loving and moral everyone should be. What made it painful to watch was that it wasn't even really disguised at all. Early TNG had that same sense of high and mighty idealism, but it was never quite so quick to ram it down your throat as TOS seemed.

I've got little to base it off, I've only seen the first series of TOS, but it seemed so idealistic to be completely unreachable where TNG seemed mildly more realistic. Don't know how, just the impression I got.
"He was the best of us. They struck without provocation, there was no reason. Animals! Brutal! They deserve no mercy! Strike them down, follow them back to their base and kill all of them, all of them! No mercy!" - Delenn
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 12079
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Justice

Postby Teaos » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:32 pm

TOS preaches trough actions thoug, TNG made speaches, lazy writing.
User avatar
Teaos
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 14669
Joined: Tue Jul 17, 2007 3:00 am
Location: Behind you!

Re: Justice

Postby Mikey » Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:48 pm

There was plenty of pontificating in TOS, too.
"We've been over this. We don't shoot first and ask questions later."
"Of course! We never ask questions."
User avatar
Mikey
Fleet Admiral
Fleet Admiral
 
Posts: 33177
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 2:04 am
Location: down the shore, New Jersey, USA

Re: Justice

Postby Graham Kennedy » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:11 pm

Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
User avatar
Graham Kennedy
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 8281
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:28 pm
Location: Banbury, UK

Re: Justice

Postby Reliant121 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:20 am

Teaos wrote:TOS preaches trough actions thoug, TNG made speaches, lazy writing.


Personally, I'd rather have the speech. In any case, my statement was just a general feeling.
"He was the best of us. They struck without provocation, there was no reason. Animals! Brutal! They deserve no mercy! Strike them down, follow them back to their base and kill all of them, all of them! No mercy!" - Delenn
User avatar
Reliant121
3 Star Admiral
3 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 12079
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 4:00 pm
Location: Hampshire, UK

Re: Justice

Postby RK_Striker_JK_5 » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:37 pm

There was plenty of speech-making by Kirk, but the hamminess made it palatable for me. :D Plus, Kirk had some good speeches.
User avatar
RK_Striker_JK_5
2 Star Admiral
2 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 9166
Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:27 am
Location: New Hampshire

Re: Justice

Postby Mark » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:57 am

Again, I can't help but wonder why the hell a civilian child was allowed on the surface of a planet interacting with a culture of which SF didn't even have basic knowledge of something that simple.
They say that in the Army,
the women are mighty fine.
They look like Phyllis Diller,
and walk like Frankenstein.
User avatar
Mark
4 Star Admiral
4 Star Admiral
 
Posts: 17671
Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:49 pm
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii

PreviousNext

Return to TNG

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest