SFDebris: Pen Pals

[SolkaTruesilver]

IMHO, the Prime Directive is just the remains of Gene Roddenburry's flawed vision of what an utopia should be. There are plenty of things Gene got bad, mostly regarding religion. Well, the P.D., while in principle, isn't bad, is just isn't applicable.

Again, it's simply a rule created so you can violate it. TvTropes says it best:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... eDirective

"Starfleet -- the military arm of the Federation -- claims to observe a "Prime Directive" not to interfere with other species. But all they do is interfere!"
- Klingon Commander Dorak, on the Federation.

This trope involves any code of conduct that artificially constrains the choices available to the protagonist. Often (as with the trope's namesake), it restricts or prevents his use of phlebotinum that would wrap the plot in two seconds otherwise. Conveniently forgotten (or handwaved) when the plot requires it, but some shows do try to use this as a point of plot drama as the protagonists try to find a way to twist the rules to fit the situation.

The Trope Namer is Star Trek, which gave us the "Prime Directive of Non-Interference". It's reproduced in full further down the page, but the short of it is, "[If] the Rubber Forehead Aliens of the Week are sufficiently primitive, [then] do not alter their culture in any way, shape or form." It exists because, in the words of Jean-Luc Picard, "History has proven again and again that whenever mankind interferes with a less developed civilization, no matter how well-intentioned that interference may be, the results are invariably disastrous." Having said that, Gene Roddenberry is on record that, all moral pontifications aside, the Prime Directive was mostly a Rule of Drama: do we screw the rules and do what's right? Star Trek being what it was, the answer was often "Yes", and generally the crew managed not to bungle it either.

[Mikey]

You're discussing at once two different viewpoints. OOU, of course it's a dramatic device - OOU, warp drive is a dramatic device; phasers are a dramatic device; Data's android characteristics are a dramatic device; Spock's heritage is a dramatic device; etc., etc., ad nauseum. IU, however, it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the disparate natures of the TOS PD and the TNG+ PD, as well as the arbitrary and haphazard way in which the PD was applied in the TNG era.

[SolkaTruesilver]

You're discussing at once two different viewpoints. OOU, of course it's a dramatic device - OOU, warp drive is a dramatic device; phasers are a dramatic device; Data's android characteristics are a dramatic device; Spock's heritage is a dramatic device; etc., etc., ad nauseum. IU, however, it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the disparate natures of the TOS PD and the TNG+ PD, as well as the arbitrary and haphazard way in which the PD was applied in the TNG era.

But the thing is, in TOS, the Prime directive was there to show the crew/captain could do the moral this and violate it. But how did they violate it? In somewhat arguable cases.

In TNG, the Prime Directive was violated, in some instance NOT BY THE CREW. And how did they violate it? To prevent the saving of an entire culture and specie. They took the concept of having limitation in place for drama, and they streched it to the absurd point.

[Mikey]

In both instances, the idea of being forced to choose whether or not to violate the PD was there for dramatic purposes. In TOS, the drama came from choosing the morally right thing over the technically right thing - even though all of the captain's/crew's training told them otherwise. It was similar in TNG - the issue wasn't with the decisions, it was with the nature of the TNG-era PD itself. That's what made some of the choices involved ridiculous.

In TNG, the Prime Directive was violated, in some instance NOT BY THE CREW.

I can't even begin to imagine what you mean by this. People who feature in an episode but aren't of a Starfleet crew are generally people who wouldn't be bound by the PD in any event.

[SolkaTruesilver]

In
I can't even begin to imagine what you mean by this. People who feature in an episode but aren't of a Starfleet crew are generally people who wouldn't be bound by the PD in any event.

Worf's brother

[Mikey]

In
I can't even begin to imagine what you mean by this. People who feature in an episode but aren't of a Starfleet crew are generally people who wouldn't be bound by the PD in any event.

Worf's brother

I presume you mean his human brother (I forget his name) - in which case, the PD wouldn't apply to him at all. He had no decision to make about violating the PD, since he was never bound by it.

[Captain Seafort]

I presume you mean his human brother (I forget his name) - in which case, the PD wouldn't apply to him at all. He had no decision to make about violating the PD, since he was never bound by it.

Actually, the distinct impression given is that Nikolai was bound by the PD, legally at least:

PICARD
I have no intention of compounding
what you've already done by
committing another gross violation
of the Prime Directive.
...

PICARD
The Prime Directive is a principle
we've all sworn to uphold. Until
that is changed, we cannot follow
any other course of action. Is
that understood?

[Coalition]

You're discussing at once two different viewpoints. OOU, of course it's a dramatic device - OOU, warp drive is a dramatic device; phasers are a dramatic device; Data's android characteristics are a dramatic device; Spock's heritage is a dramatic device; etc., etc., ad nauseum. IU, however, it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the disparate natures of the TOS PD and the TNG+ PD, as well as the arbitrary and haphazard way in which the PD was applied in the TNG era.

If the Prime Directive has to be violated to do the right thing, then the senior people at Starfleet need to review it, and change it to something that works. After all, if the only way to do the right thing is to break the law, then the law needs to be changed.

[Sonic Glitch]

You're discussing at once two different viewpoints. OOU, of course it's a dramatic device - OOU, warp drive is a dramatic device; phasers are a dramatic device; Data's android characteristics are a dramatic device; Spock's heritage is a dramatic device; etc., etc., ad nauseum. IU, however, it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the disparate natures of the TOS PD and the TNG+ PD, as well as the arbitrary and haphazard way in which the PD was applied in the TNG era.

If the Prime Directive has to be violated to do the right thing, then the senior people at Starfleet need to review it, and change it to something that works. After all, if the only way to do the right thing is to break the law, then the law needs to be changed.

The right thing and the smart thing are not necessarily the same thing. Just sayin'

[Mikey]

I presume you mean his human brother (I forget his name) - in which case, the PD wouldn't apply to him at all. He had no decision to make about violating the PD, since he was never bound by it.

Actually, the distinct impression given is that Nikolai was bound by the PD, legally at least:

PICARD
I have no intention of compounding
what you've already done by
committing another gross violation
of the Prime Directive.
...

PICARD
The Prime Directive is a principle
we've all sworn to uphold. Until
that is changed, we cannot follow
any other course of action. Is
that understood?

Hmm. I didn't recall the dialogue, nor Nikolai's employer. I guess if he were operating under the auspices of a UFP organization, he would be bound by the PD. My bad on that example, but it doesn't change the fact that non-UFP operators aren't bound by such strictures.

You're discussing at once two different viewpoints. OOU, of course it's a dramatic device - OOU, warp drive is a dramatic device; phasers are a dramatic device; Data's android characteristics are a dramatic device; Spock's heritage is a dramatic device; etc., etc., ad nauseum. IU, however, it is perfectly reasonable to discuss the disparate natures of the TOS PD and the TNG+ PD, as well as the arbitrary and haphazard way in which the PD was applied in the TNG era.

If the Prime Directive has to be violated to do the right thing, then the senior people at Starfleet need to review it, and change it to something that works. After all, if the only way to do the right thing is to break the law, then the law needs to be changed.

No doubt, but tangential. We've been discussing the instance of willingness to violate the PD, not our opinions of the PD itself. It's been shown many times in the past that the overwhelming consensus around here is that the TNG-era PD is a big truckload of crap.

[Tyyr]

The TOS PD made sense. The problem is the TNG writing crew took it to the most absurd extreme they could manage and it just got fucking silly.

[Deepcrush]

The TNG-PD was, to me at least, a clear showing that the writers of the show lacked the IQ required to figure out their own stories.

[Tyyr]

Tom Paris of all people pointed out how stupid the PD was in Time and Again, the 4th Voyager episode, by asking how extinction was part of a society's development when it was the end of it?

[Lighthawk]

It is kind of hard to make a situation worse than Complete Annihilation.

[Mikey]

It's also kind of hard to be dumb enough that Tom Paris notices.