Have we met? Hi, I'm Mikey. I'm fairly new to the board, but I hope to get some posts up soon.Captain Seafort wrote:That's an exaggeration
TNG: Unification
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Re: TNG: Unification
I can't stand nothing dull
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
I got the high gloss luster
I'll massacre your ass as fast
as Bull offed Custer
Re: TNG: Unification
That reminds me of a stunt CIA tried to pull off on Cuba - they sent few thousand troops (probably mercenaries) to incite a revolt against Cuban Communist goverment. Do I really need to say that plan failed miserably? I think that Romulans, knowing there is genetic connection between them and Vulcans (Romulans are Vulcan "offspring") tried to incite a revolt and get Vulcan leave Federation, which could be huge blow to Federation as whole, since Vulcan is one of founding members of Federation.Mark wrote:2,000 troops. I wonder what they hoped to accomplish against the Vulcan populace with that. Ok, MAYBE 2,000 troops would work on a colony planet, but Vulcan is one of the founding members of the Federation. In Enterprise, we saw they have compantant soldiers who are trained to fight with both beam and melee weapons.
I mean, MAYBE those 2K troops could have assassinated the government officials before being overwhelmed, but of all the races of the Federation, I see the Vulcans as having the easiest time recovering from a blow like that.
Hmmm....we'll never know.
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Re: TNG: Unification
The biggest hit to the UFP from losing Vulcan would be the loss of the Alpha Eridanni shipyard and the Vulcan Science Ministry. Even then those are minimal losses to be had when compared against the UFP as a whole.
The opening plan was good, the long run plan was shit and thats all there really is to the Unification issue.
The opening plan was good, the long run plan was shit and thats all there really is to the Unification issue.
Jinsei wa cho no yume, shi no tsubasa no bitodesu
Re: TNG: Unification
True, but I was talking about political ramifications of such event. These would be far worse than loss of any shipbuilding and R&D facilities they have on/near Vulcan.
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Re: TNG: Unification
If anything I'd expect this to be helpful for the UFP rather then hurtful. It would have put the UFP on a war footing a decade earlier then the Dominion's effects did. The RSE never would have been able to hold Vulcan and the UFP would have begun a massive build up afterwards to handle the new threat the RSE represented.Picard wrote:True, but I was talking about political ramifications of such event. These would be far worse than loss of any shipbuilding and R&D facilities they have on/near Vulcan.
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Re: TNG: Unification
Losing ANY one planet shouldn't be an issue for the Federation. Terribly sad and all that, but even losing Earth shouldn't be remotely close to a death stroke. Moves and such only imply otherwise to try and falsely ramp up the tension when a planet is threatened.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
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Re: TNG: Unification
Not true with Earth. Humans are the dominate race in the UFP and Sol makes up the bulk of their fleet production. While not a death stroke, it would have a horrible effect on the UFP as a whole until another race and system stepped up in their place.GrahamKennedy wrote:Losing ANY one planet shouldn't be an issue for the Federation. Terribly sad and all that, but even losing Earth shouldn't be remotely close to a death stroke. Moves and such only imply otherwise to try and falsely ramp up the tension when a planet is threatened.
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Re: TNG: Unification
Well we get into how absurd it is that Humans or any species could be the "dominant race" in an organisation comprising 150+ species. But even accepting that Humans are some kind of dominant species, I can't believe that they are THAT dominant. Losing Earth might be the equivalent of losing ten other major planets... and that would still leave over 90% of the Federation's core worlds intact, as well as the colonies.Deepcrush wrote:Not true with Earth. Humans are the dominate race in the UFP and Sol makes up the bulk of their fleet production. While not a death stroke, it would have a horrible effect on the UFP as a whole until another race and system stepped up in their place.GrahamKennedy wrote:Losing ANY one planet shouldn't be an issue for the Federation. Terribly sad and all that, but even losing Earth shouldn't be remotely close to a death stroke. Moves and such only imply otherwise to try and falsely ramp up the tension when a planet is threatened.
Give a man a fire, and you keep him warm for a day. SET a man on fire, and you will keep him warm for the rest of his life...
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Re: TNG: Unification
As absurd as the US being the dominant country of a planet with almost 200?GrahamKennedy wrote:Well we get into how absurd it is that Humans or any species could be the "dominant race" in an organisation comprising 150+ species.
It would leave the world intact, certainly, but how strong or unified would they be? The Terran system is the political and military centre of the Federation. Lose it and you loose the Council, the Presidents office, Starfleet Command, the Academy and Utopia Planetia. The Federation would fragment into dozens of microstates, with Vulcan, Tellar and Andoria probably the strongest, and Starfleet would go to pieces without its centralised command and shipbuilding infrastructure.But even accepting that Humans are some kind of dominant species, I can't believe that they are THAT dominant. Losing Earth might be the equivalent of losing ten other major planets... and that would still leave over 90% of the Federation's core worlds intact, as well as the colonies.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
Re: TNG: Unification
Or they would simply reorganize all that on Vulcan. But losing any of core worlds will be sign to many spieces in Federation that Federation can no longer protect them, causing rift and many spieces would leave Federation, weakening it a lot.
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Re: TNG: Unification
They might be able to regroup the personnel, but they'd still loose the infrastructure, most importantly UP.Picard wrote:Or they would simply reorganize all that on Vulcan.
Indeed.But losing any of core worlds will be sign to many spieces in Federation that Federation can no longer protect them, causing rift and many spieces would leave Federation, weakening it a lot.
Only two things are infinite - the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe: Albert Einstein.
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Re: TNG: Unification
Possibly. The Bay of Pigs debacle was at least partially predicated upon the fact that Castro had recently taken power leaving what the CIA hoped was a lot of disaffected Cubans that would rise up. There was no such similar event as far as we're aware of on Vulcan. If that was what was going out then the Romulans were really going WAY out on a limb.Picard wrote:That reminds me of a stunt CIA tried to pull off on Cuba - they sent few thousand troops (probably mercenaries) to incite a revolt against Cuban Communist goverment. Do I really need to say that plan failed miserably? I think that Romulans, knowing there is genetic connection between them and Vulcans (Romulans are Vulcan "offspring") tried to incite a revolt and get Vulcan leave Federation, which could be huge blow to Federation as whole, since Vulcan is one of founding members of Federation.
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Re: TNG: Unification
As far as I'm aware we've never really gotten a good clue about troop sizes in Trek. Compared to the dozen or so troops in AR-558 holding the communications thingy, 2000 troops is huge. Its hard to say what they could have done.
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Re: TNG: Unification
We do have an understanding that 500,000 Cardassians wasn't enough to hold a minor planet from the Klingons for anymore then a single week.USSEnterprise wrote:As far as I'm aware we've never really gotten a good clue about troop sizes in Trek. Compared to the dozen or so troops in AR-558 holding the communications thingy, 2000 troops is huge. Its hard to say what they could have done.
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Re: TNG: Unification
Do we? Huh, must have missed that A fairly reasonable military figure for Trek too...Deepcrush wrote:We do have an understanding that 500,000 Cardassians wasn't enough to hold a minor planet from the Klingons for anymore then a single week.USSEnterprise wrote:As far as I'm aware we've never really gotten a good clue about troop sizes in Trek. Compared to the dozen or so troops in AR-558 holding the communications thingy, 2000 troops is huge. Its hard to say what they could have done.