SFDebris: Relics Review

The Next Generation
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Tyyr »

stitch626 wrote:
Tyyr wrote:Ya'll is a proper word, just like ain't.
I'd argue about ain't. What are its components?
You'd lose given that it's in most dictionaries I've seen.

am not
are not
is not
have not
has not
do not
does not
did not
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by stitch626 »

Tyyr wrote:
stitch626 wrote:
Tyyr wrote:Ya'll is a proper word, just like ain't.
I'd argue about ain't. What are its components?
You'd lose given that it's in most dictionaries I've seen.

am not
are not
is not
have not
has not
do not
does not
did not
Whether or not it is in a dictionary has no bearing on it being a proper word. My home dictionary is full of slang (i.e. improper words).

As for the components, those are incorrect. A contraction is made up of two words. Find a word that has ai in it (that could be applied here).
Those ones are:
For the first one, the proper method would be I'm not, as there is no amn't and the contraction of I am takes precedence over am not.
aren't
isn't
haven't
hasn't
don't
doesn't
didn't
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Tyyr »

That's nice, you're still wrong though. Those are the base pairs of words it is used to represent.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

What is a 'proper' word, though?
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Lazar »

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:What is a 'proper' word, though?
In this context, a word that's acceptable for formal or semi-formal writing.

As for "ain't", from what I've read, it originally came from "amn't" (a form that still survives among some Scots and Irish), and gradually expanded in function to encompass "is not", "are not", "has not" and "have not". And there's no rule that a contraction can't depart from the spelling of its component words: the contraction "won't" evolved from an earlier form "wiln't".
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by RK_Striker_JK_5 »

Well, English is a dynamic and living language. it changes and will change in the future. What was unaccaptable once will become acceptable in the future, and vice versa.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by stitch626 »

Well, since I am nowhere near an English major, I will concede.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Mikey »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Mikey wrote:it's probably a similar colloquialism to the Irish use of the fabricated contraction "t'other."
Irish? T'other's more Yorkshire than Irish.
Hmm. I've never lived in the UK, so I guess i have to take your word for it - but the linguistics analysis I had seen definitely referred to it as an Irish colloquialism. All I know about Yorkshire is that it's the namesake of those weird lumpy baked things that are somehow ridiculously called "puddings."
Mark wrote:Kind of like "ya'll"?
You mean, like I mentioned two whole posts before this? :P
Tyyr wrote:Ya'll is a proper word, just like ain't.
Either panhandle or West Coast, for sure.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Sionnach Glic »

Mikey wrote: Hmm. I've never lived in the UK, so I guess i have to take your word for it - but the linguistics analysis I had seen definitely referred to it as an Irish colloquialism.
For what it's worth, I've never heard anyone say "t'other". Thus I doubt it's of Irish origin.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Mikey »

Like I said, I've never lived in the UK. But the program was referring to late 19th-century vernacular, so it might be an obsolete usage by now.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Captain Seafort »

Mikey wrote:But the program was referring to late 19th-century vernacular, so it might be an obsolete usage by now.
Or it was bullshit. Sionnach would obviously be in a better position to comment on the Irish angle, but having lived in Yorkshire for several years, I think I can safely say that it's a Yorkshire term.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Mikey »

Captain Seafort wrote:Or it was bullshit. Sionnach would obviously be in a better position to comment on the Irish angle, but having lived in Yorkshire for several years, I think I can safely say that it's a Yorkshire term.
Which precludes its use in other vernaculars how, exactly? I'm not sure what you've got your dander up about, exactly. I already said that a native of the area in question would know better about current usage; but you assuming that absolutely no possibility exists for an archaic usage is tantamount to me dismissing anything you might have to say about military history, despite the fact that such field is your area of training.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Sionnach Glic »

I actually doubt it was used in Olde Irelande. I've got letters written by/to my grandfather from the pre-Rising days, and despite there being plenty of contractions in it, there's no "t'other".
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Mikey »

It's eminently possible that I was misinformed, or misinterpretated a statement that more probably referred to 19th-century Irish-Americans. There were a handful coming over back then. As I alluded to in response to Seafort, however, it would be just stupid to off-the-bat assume that I knew better than a trained linguist.
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Re: SFDebris: Relics Review

Post by Sonic Glitch »

Sionnach Glic wrote:I actually doubt it was used in Olde Irelande. I've got letters written by/to my grandfather from the pre-Rising days, and despite there being plenty of contractions in it, there's no "t'other".
Why jus' t'other day i went down to the Pub.
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