What's the most improbable aspect of the Trek universe?

[Vic]

I was under the impression that it was First Contact that had everyone singing kumbayah, not the aftermath of the war. In the movie First Contact it looked like earth was full of independent communities hanging on by the finger nails. Although it has been years since I've seen it.

[Mikey]

I was under the impression that it was First Contact that had everyone singing kumbayah, not the aftermath of the war. In the movie First Contact it looked like earth was full of independent communities hanging on by the finger nails. Although it has been years since I've seen it.

Agreed. In FC, the post-WW3 populace was more tribal, fragmented, and xenophobic than ever.

[The piman]

perhaps WW3 was so bad that people were like "hey let's all get together and we'll be fine". then because of this, a society was created were ideas could be easily expressed, violence was unheard of, and people wanted to experiment with new ideas and advancements in technology. but then there were also people that wanted to stay separated from others for whatever reason, thereby creating the whole fragmentation thing.

[Captain Seafort]

perhaps WW3 was so bad that people were like "hey let's all get together and we'll be fine". then because of this, a society was created were ideas could be easily expressed, violence was unheard of, and people wanted to experiment with new ideas and advancements in technology. but then there were also people that wanted to stay separated from others for whatever reason, thereby creating the whole fragmentation thing.

Sounds like 1919, and given how well that turned out I'm somewhat sceptical.

[Sionnach Glic]

I think it's worth pointing out that it's not after WW3, but after TOS that humans begin to seriously change. In TOS and the later movie era, humans are much the same as they are now. They think, act and behave in the same ways we do now. It's only in TNG that we see humans becoming incredibly pacifistic and beginning to lose IQ points.

My own theory is that, due to the collapse of the Klingon Empire as a credible military threat, the UFP became increasingly complacent - believing that its technological advantages over its neighbouring races would be enough to ensure there'd be no major conflicts. With no threat to keep the populace worried, the more beligerant governments of the TOS/movie era were voted out of power, and replaced by far more pacifistic leaders. As the UFP's tech advanced further and further, bringing things like holodecks and replicators into the hands of the public, society underwent a major shift towards what we see in TNG. With all these major shifts in the civillian populace, the military's more beligerant leaders were eventualy retired and replaced with admirals chosen more for their ideology instead of their military prowess. This combined with the apparent lack of any real external threat caused Starfleet's shift to a science and exploration based organisation, which viewed warfare as a secondary concern which was unlikely to happen.

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

I think it's worth pointing out that it's not after WW3, but after TOS that humans begin to seriously change. In TOS and the later movie era, humans are much the same as they are now. They think, act and behave in the same ways we do now. It's only in TNG that we see humans becoming incredibly pacifistic and beginning to lose IQ points.

My own theory is that, due to the collapse of the Klingon Empire as a credible military threat, the UFP became increasingly complacent - believing that its technological advantages over its neighbouring races would be enough to ensure there'd be no major conflicts. With no threat to keep the populace worried, the more beligerant governments of the TOS/movie era were voted out of power, and replaced by far more pacifistic leaders. As the UFP's tech advanced further and further, bringing things like holodecks and replicators into the hands of the public, society underwent a major shift towards what we see in TNG. With all these major shifts in the civillian populace, the military's more beligerant leaders were eventualy retired and replaced with admirals chosen more for their ideology instead of their military prowess. This combined with the apparent lack of any real external threat caused Starfleet's shift to a science and exploration based organisation, which viewed warfare as a secondary concern which was unlikely to happen.

That's what a lot of people think, actually. It makes a lot of sense to me, at least.

[The piman]

so, was it because of these "pacifist" leaders that people became nicer and decided to throw out money altogether on Earth? obviously, money would still need to be used among other peoples in the galaxy hence the gold pressed latinum.

[Mikey]

I don't think any of that speaks to the form of economy in use. Rather, as has been seen, the "no money" idea was in use within the UFP specifically while currency was used in transactions with non-UFP species. I'd guess that the no-money deal came about with the advent of widespread replication technology, along with other high-tech means of food propduction/necessity production. In TOS - at which point replicators were not widespread - money of a sort was used even on UFP bases (cf. TOS: "The Trouble With Tribbles," et. al.)

[Captain Seafort]

I'd guess that the no-money deal came about with the advent of widespread replication technology, along with other high-tech means of food propduction/necessity production.

You'd still need some method of defining the cost producing something from a replicator, albeit with labour coast removed from the equation. You still need base materials and power, neither of which are infinite.

[Tyyr]

Exactly. The energy requirements of replicating something would be substantial, and energy isn't free.

[Captain Seafort]

We've no idea what the energy requirements would be, only that they're non-zero, and that's all we need to know.

[Tyyr]

At the very least you're going to be breaking a significant number of molecular bonds. If you have to carry feedstock that is incredibly close to the final product than you're not getting a huge benefit from replicator technology.

[Mikey]

I'd guess that the no-money deal came about with the advent of widespread replication technology, along with other high-tech means of food propduction/necessity production.

You'd still need some method of defining the cost producing something from a replicator, albeit with labour coast removed from the equation. You still need base materials and power, neither of which are infinite.

True... but the fact remains of a no-money economy, at least within the Federation. Given that, the advent of widespread replicator usage seems the most likely fulcrum on which to lever such a thing.

[Captain Seafort]

True... but the fact remains of a no-money economy, at least within the Federation. Given that, the advent of widespread replicator usage seems the most likely fulcrum on which to lever such a thing.

Or communism, which has the elimination of money as one of its key goals.

[Mikey]

Strictly speaking, communism is a political definition rather than an economic one. However, without getting into a semantic morass, you may be right except for the fact that what we've seen doesn't appear to be communism. Currency is seemingly readily available to individuals to trade with non-Fed species. There is obvious private ownership of land. There are certainly no manpower quotas or restrictions on any given profession or vocation, though this could still be explained under communism by... the widespread usage of replicators.