Specialized Galaxy Primary Hulls

[Kevsha]

Actually, there are several carburetor cars that have better performance than "modern" autos. And there were a few that could be as efficient. The problem was that most had huge V-8 engines (at least in the US) and were made of very heavy materials.

i don't want to get into this too far but those same mototrs you are talking about that perform better than moddern cars and are ejust as efficient could be MORE efficient and perform BETTER with fuel injection... auto manufacturers didn't stop using carbs because fuel injection sounds cooler.


you are taking my comparisons too literaly. the write brothers spent years designing and testning a plane that flew for 14 seconds not and intestellar spacecraft. it was made of wood and cloth. apples and oranges.

you are right, perhaps tom could draw a pretty pretty picture of a ship, but without the egineering behind it doesn't do much good without the propper engineering behind it, extensive testing(before and after its built) i find it very hard to believe that tom possed the knowlage to design a ship completly and have the plans ready fro production in such a short time. maybe given alot more time and consultuing with engineers along the way

[stitch626]

Would you stop saying apples and oranges. Its a terrible saying seeing as it isn't very accurate. Apples and oranges are both fruits, they both grow on trees...
Better would be electrons and positrons.

i don't want to get into this too far but those same mototrs you are talking about that perform better than moddern cars and are ejust as efficient could be MORE efficient and perform BETTER with fuel injection... auto manufacturers didn't stop using carbs because fuel injection sounds cooler.

I'm not gonna argue that. I was just pointing out your incorrectness when you said that fuel injected modern cars were more xyz than carb cars.

the write brothers spent years designing and testning a plane that flew for 14 seconds not and intestellar spacecraft.

The point is they built something completely out of their subject area. Planes had not existed yet (unless you count Whitehead).
With Tom:
1) shuttles had already existed, so he wasn't starting from scratch.
2) he spent a lot of time in the holodeck, who's to say he wasn't testing his shuttle.
3) we have no indication that he couldn't design a shuttle.

What they needed was a structure that was stronger than what they had. For all we know, he took the design of a Runabout and modified it to meet his desires. Which is pretty much what car designers do. They take what someone else has already done and modify it.

[Mikey]

The Wright brothers were able to use "off the shelf" (so to speak) items, as they weren't interested in building a vehicle optimized for production or performance; merely, as Kev said, to show that such a vehicle was workable.

First of all, no complete vehicle is designed by one person. And designs change drastically as production goes on.

Bingo! They are designed by teams of automotive engineers and designers.

can't answer them till I start on the actual vehicle.

But how do you start without knowing those answers? I, for example, happen to know the advantages and disadvantages of each of those choices; but I couldn't sit here with a straight face and tell you that I can design a production vehicle. It's even more complicated than I had described. Let's say you decide to go with an OHC engine; now, to design that car you not only have to have the knowledge to make that decision, but to design camshafts for that engine. What spacing and angles do you use? Now, more questions are brought up... do you go with a VVT design? And if so, what degree of phasing for the cams do you use? And let's actually pitch the idea - as you're testing your design, can you look at results and decide on the spot (without going back to square one) how the performance would change with a pushrod design instead of an OHC one?

etc., ad nauseum.

[stitch626]

What I meant was, can't answer them till I know what type of car I want. Sports car, pure racer, SUV, heavy hauler, etc. This is the first thing you need to know.

[Mikey]

OK, let's do a "for-instance." You're designing a one-ton duallie... diesel, of course. What pressure do you use for the fuel rails? No fair doing a web search - just off the top of your head. Remember, this thing has to be designed and put into production within a week.

*EDIT* Or, if you don't like that question... what kind of spark plugs do you use? (Kevsha, don't answer.)

[Kevsha]

Would you stop saying apples and oranges. Its a terrible saying seeing as it isn't very accurate. Apples and oranges are both fruits, they both grow on trees...
Better would be electrons and positrons. .

but...... i like apples.....

The point is they built something completely out of their subject area. Planes had not existed yet (unless you count Whitehead).
With Tom:
1) shuttles had already existed, so he wasn't starting from scratch.
2) he spent a lot of time in the holodeck, who's to say he wasn't testing his shuttle.
3) we have no indication that he couldn't design a shuttle.

What they needed was a structure that was stronger than what they had. For all we know, he took the design of a Runabout and modified it to meet his desires. Which is pretty much what car designers do. They take what someone else has already done and modify it.

not enough time how long did he spend in the holodeck "testing" (and by testing i mean having sex with hot holodeck girls) maybe given more time and again not by himself, working together with engineers.... it doesn't matter about all the other shuttles he has seen they weren't building the flyer to fill the role they already had with the other shuttles they had, they built it to fill another role. he was starting from scratch because they didn't start with the frame of one of thier existing shuttles. it was an entirely new design. its plausable with more time, just not as fast as they did it

[stitch626]

OK, let's do a "for-instance." You're designing a one-ton duallie... diesel, of course. What pressure do you use for the fuel rails? No fair doing a web search - just off the top of your head. Remember, this thing has to be designed and put into production within a week.

*EDIT* Or, if you don't like that question... what kind of spark plugs do you use? (Kevsha, don't answer.)

Unfortunately, my knowledge of diesel is limited. Or tucks for that matter. I've never even seen a diesel engine.
Though I do know one bit. No spark plugs, you use glow plugs.

[Mikey]

OK, you got my trick. (glow plugs are just to heat the block, though, there's no ignition in a diesel.)

OK, sports car. Pushrod or OHC?

[stitch626]

Ah thats why they're called glow plugs.

As for the car, OHC. Though I am not sure what the difference is for SOHC or DOHC (I don't know what S or D stand for).

[Kevsha]

single/dual over head cam(s)

[Mikey]

But wrong answer. For a given displacement and compression, pushrods deliver more power. You probably couldn't have been expected to know that, which is my point. Someone who isn't in the ship design business building a ship from the specs up in that time frame is ludicrous.

[stitch626]

Actually I know push rods provide more power. However, they are also harder to maintain for the average user, and if I were to design a vehicle, I would want it to be easier on the owner. Power isn't everything.
For a racer, I'd use push rod. But sports cars are often used for just driving around by otherwise normal people. I'd only use push rod on a sole race car.
Just my opinion of course.

[Tsukiyumi]

Remember how Tom wanted to add big fins to the back? He didn't even have the basic hull form finalized yet. The impression I got was that he had already come up with a few of the new systems, and maybe had a rough idea of others.

Was it really just two days, though? I don't recall. Even if he had two weeks, it still wouldn't be enough time to design it, let alone test and build it. The first one, anyways.

[Mikey]

Actually I know push rods provide more power. However, they are also harder to maintain for the average user, and if I were to design a vehicle, I would want it to be easier on the owner. Power isn't everything.

Almost every true sports car uses pushrods. Aside from power, they can't be phased like VVT OHC's and provide a meatier exhaust note at idle.

[stitch626]

Wait a sec... a push rod is OHV isn't it.
This is where not knowing all the terms is a problem.

Then yes, I'd use OHV. I honestly got the two confused.
I saw push rod vs. OHC and didn't stop to think that push rod was OHV.
Sigh.