'Yesterday's Enterprise' nit

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

How the hell can the Klingons be so sucessful against the Federation in that alternate timeline?

[Bryan Moore]

What do you mean? I mean I understand they're still recovering from the whole Praxis crap for decades, according to a lot of the E.U. stuff. But they're clearly a tough race, and we have no idea in the alternate timeline, what the E-C's disappearance did to the Federation.

Watching it on Sci-Fi now are we?

[Lazar]

I'm curious; how did the E.U. deal with the Praxis stuff? Did the Klingons end up leaving Kronos?

[Tyyr]

Watching it on Sci-Fi now are we?

Four rows of TNG in a row? Yep.

[SuperSaiyaMan12]

What do you mean? I mean I understand they're still recovering from the whole Praxis crap for decades, according to a lot of the E.U. stuff. But they're clearly a tough race, and we have no idea in the alternate timeline, what the E-C's disappearance did to the Federation.

Watching it on Sci-Fi now are we?

I mean Federation technology is usually two or three steps ahead against the Klingons. Look at their premier 24th Century vessel in TNG, the Vor'cha. Its slightly superior to the Ambassador-class, but very inferior to the Nebula and Galaxy-classes. It's only plus its its heavy disruptor cannon in the nose. However, for torpedoes, it is severely weak compared to those three.

The Federation has the superior technology, and superior industrial base. The Klingons should not have been doing that good. Hell, realistically, unless they got some 25th Century tech, they'd have been on the losing side for 20 years of war.

[Deepcrush]

Remember that at the end of STVI that the UFP council wanted to take apart the SF. So, if the KE had enough time to even match their STVI strength they would be able to over take the UFP. Plus, the UFP's main ship of the line was the Excelsior which is no match for the Vor'cha and only an even match for the K'vort.

Also, though there were 40 billion dead. We never heard of anything reaching Earth or Sol. The UFP was ready to surrender the war but Earth would have lived on.

I picture Sol as the Fortified Heart of the SF. Sol is the home of most of the UFPs shipyards and its biggest recruitment world.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, I can see it becoming a fortress world of sorts in the YE-verse.

[Deepcrush]

Like Martok said. Even the mighty Klingon Empire wouldn't have dared an out right attack against Earth during war time. I'd easily picture any surrender from the UFP do nothing more then give every human run ship a reason to race back to Earth. Battle of the Line style if it were. Only here I don't think the Klingons would be willing to pay the price.

"A victory that destroys an Empire is no victory."
Kahless the Unforgettable

If a war is going for as long and as badly as the YE-war then who would doubt that Earth would be building defenses in Sol? Space Docks, weapons platforms, planet based shields, all would be (IMO) massed produced as much as possible. Sol would turn into a bunch of Forge Worlds!

[Bryan Moore]

I'm curious; how did the E.U. deal with the Praxis stuff? Did the Klingons end up leaving Kronos?

2003 SPOLERS BELOW
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2003 SPOLERS BELOW

We don't get a lot of great detail, but it's mentioned in numerous Lost Era books. Basically, the Klingons stay on Kronos, but their atmosphere is severely impacted. With help from the Federation, the Klingon Empire is able to survive, though very much weakened, to the point that there is genuine fear of invasion by a number of powers. Really, the Praxis disaster seems to be larger than anything we could compare it to on Earth, as it setst he Empire back decades.

It becomes a matter of policy for the Federation to see the Klingons not as enemies, but as potenital future allies, if cards are played right, though there's some trepidation. There are those among the Klingons who appreciate the Federation and see them as an ally or at least a power who can help them regain their own. There are also those who feel that aid from the Federation is weakening the people, and would rather turn to other means (Romulans) to regain some of their previous power. But the politics after the Praxis disaster are such that they lead to incidents with the Romulans at Narendra III and of course Khitomer. Really, it's tied in very well by the Lost Era series. Basically, you get a lot of politicking due to the disaster, and a sort of "okay which way do we go now" dilemma for the Klingons, who are reluctant to admit defeat, but clearly need help.

[Bryan Moore]

Remember that at the end of STVI that the UFP council wanted to take apart the SF. So, if the KE had enough time to even match their STVI strength they would be able to over take the UFP. Plus, the UFP's main ship of the line was the Excelsior which is no match for the Vor'cha and only an even match for the K'vort.

I appreciate the sentiments, though I'm forced to question two things.

First, is the UFP really about dismantling Starfleet? I always interpreted that to be the fears of Cartwright and Kirk, said to an extreme to highlight a point.
Secondly, do we know when the Vor'cha actually came out? No evidence of what they were using as their main ships in the alternate universe? Remember, we're supposed to believe the Klingons are behind the UFP technologically, so there's no real evidence either way. They may have whipped out loads of Vor'cha's, but Starfleet could have plunked down loads of credits on lots of military cruisers too. I tend to agree with you, but playing devils advocate, there's just no way to be certain.

[Vic]

I only see that dismantling the fleet is a knee jerk reaction by a few. There are still many other threat forces out there, and even minor ones become a major problem with no Star Fleet.

[Deepcrush]

First, is the UFP really about dismantling Starfleet? I always interpreted that to be the fears of Cartwright and Kirk, said to an extreme to highlight a point.

Spock was the one to bring it up. The dismantling of SF bases along the Neutral Zone and the reduction in arms (combat starships).

Secondly, do we know when the Vor'cha actually came out? No evidence of what they were using as their main ships in the alternate universe? Remember, we're supposed to believe the Klingons are behind the UFP technologically, so there's no real evidence either way. They may have whipped out loads of Vor'cha's, but Starfleet could have plunked down loads of credits on lots of military cruisers too. I tend to agree with you, but playing devils advocate, there's just no way to be certain.

When the Vor'cha came out doesn't really matter. We know that in the time of TNG the UFP had the GCS but was still losing the war. 40 billion dead from both sides and the UFP council was 6 months from surrender. However Sol (being no word of ever being attacked) would likely have been a fortress system by this point. 20 years of war will do that to a people. If the Klingons were able to take Sol they would have. So then that means the KE was most likely fighting an attrition war to drain the life out of the UFP and make them break down. Since Sol was still turning out starships at this point I'm guessing that its not going as well as the KE wanted.

[Sionnach Glic]

I think it's quite clear that they did want to, if not dismantle Starfleet, then at least neuter it. By the TNG era this influence can be clearly felt. Personaly I see that conversation as heralding the beginning of the UFP's demilitarisation.

[Tyyr]

Good catch there.

And it worked out smashingly for Starfleet.

[Deepcrush]

Nothing like doing a job for a hundred years then someone cuts you in half... because one of their fifty enemies is taking a break...