Galaxy class

Bryan Moore · Post by **Bryan Moore** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:05 pm

Minus the mercurial warp core, I love the ship's purpose. I agree it's used as more of a battleship, but it was a natural progression from the Enterprise-A/Excelsior. Remember, when she was concieved, we never saw any of these other ships with more logical uses. It took many years for all of these other classes to develop. So I don't necessarily see it being that annoyingly designed, all things considered.

Post by **Mikey** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:11 pm

*receives slap in the face* Now, back to our topic!

OK: I don't think it's poorly designed for the consept behind her. I think that the CONCEPT is not the best.

Although it had to be shown that the Galaxy-class was far and away the SOTA, because she was the Enterprise, a very true general maxim is "jack of all trades, master of none." There are threads all over this site about Starfleet's design policy and multirole ships, but the point is this: if she was designed to do EVERYTHING, then she can't be the best design to do any ONE thing.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:23 pm

I don't remember hearing that onscreen, but I wouldn't dream of contradicting Rochey. So...

By all means, feel free. My memory is good on trivia, but I tend to forget a lot of other things. I could very well be wrong on this, and I hope I am!

BTW, is that why he's the only enlisted man we've EVER seen? And even he's an NCO...

I believe O'Brien stated that even he went to the acadamy.

Thats a good question though, have we ever seen anyone of lower rank than O'Brien?

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:34 pm

Rochey wrote:
BTW, is that why he's the only enlisted man we've EVER seen? And even he's an NCO...
I believe O'Brien stated that even he went to the acadamy.
Thats a good question though, have we ever seen anyone of lower rank than O'Brien?

Didn't O'Brien mention in "Starship Down" that his engineering crew (on the Defiant) hadn't been to the Academy? Though to be honest I don't think Miles is the best example of a non-Academy individual, seeing as his rank is something of a mystery. He started out in Farpoint credited as "Conn Enisign", worked his way up to full Lieutenant, and then got demoted to CPO so that Barclay would outrank him in Realm of Fear. And then specifically stated that he had always been an NCO in "Past Tense".

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:37 pm

Didn't O'Brien mention in "Starship Down" that his engineering crew (on the Defiant) hadn't been to the Academy?

Hopefully...

He started out in Farpoint credited as "Conn Enisign", worked his way up to full Lieutenant, and then got demoted to CPO so that Barclay would outrank him in Realm of Fear. And then specifically stated that he had always been an NCO in "Past Tense".

Jeez, that guy was all over the place in rank. Could they not just make up their minds as to what he was?

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:01 pm

O'Brien was always a CPO. There have been various blips where he has had the wrong rank insignia but has always been referred to as Chief.
We always see enlisted crewmembers. In Voyager 80% of the crew are enlisted. They're all crewmen - crewman is an actual enlisted rank, but just the generic term as in "member of the crew". That is why Ensign Kim is one of the highest ranked crewmembers - because everyone else is enlisted. It would have had a set enlisted number, probably about 60% at first, then the Maquis, minus Chakotay and Torres were enlisted, then the Equinox crew...

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:01 pm

O'Brien was always a CPO. There have been various blips where he has had the wrong rank insignia but has always been referred to as Chief.
We always see enlisted crewmembers. In Voyager 80% of the crew are enlisted. They're all crewmen - crewman is an actual enlisted rank, but just the generic term as in "member of the crew". That is why Ensign Kim is one of the highest ranked crewmembers - because everyone else is enlisted. It would have had a set enlisted number, probably about 60% at first, then the Maquis, minus Chakotay and Torres were enlisted, then the Equinox crew...

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:05 pm

Found the quotes.

Starship Down wrote:O'BRIEN
Could I have a word with you, sir?

WORF
Of course.

DEEP SPACE NINE: "Starship Down" - REV. 09/13/95 - ACT FOUR 47.

60 CONTINUED:

O'BRIEN
With all due respect, I think
you're riding these men a bit too
hard. You have to understand,
they're out of their element.
They're not bridge officers, they
didn't go to Starfleet Academy.
They're Engineers. They're used
to being told to repair something,
and figuring out how to do it on
their own.

WORF
What are you suggesting?

O'BRIEN
Just give them a little slack,
ease up on the reins. Let them do
what they're good at... and give
them a little encouragement now
and then.

And regarding O'Brien

Where Silence Has Lease wrote:Worf: "I am acquainted with the Yamato, Commander. Recommend the aft station of their bridge. When in doubt, surprise them."
Riker: "Them? Who's them?"
Worf: "Whoever may be there."
Riker: "Our sensors indicate no life forms."
Worf: "Still, the tactic is sound."
Riker: "Agreed. Aft station, Lieutenant."
O'Brien: "Aye, sir."

So he was referred to as a Lieutenant, not just using an NCO rank-pip system that resembled a Lieutenant's pips. But by the time of DS9:

Past Tense wrote:BASHIR
(to O'Brien)
You're more than welcome to come
along. The entire senior staff was
invited.

O'BRIEN
Full dress uniforms... fine table
linens... and a different fork for
every course... thanks but no thanks.
That's why I stayed an enlisted man.
No one expects us to show up for
formal dinners.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:25 pm

Worf: "I am acquainted with the Yamato, Commander. Recommend the aft station of their bridge. When in doubt, surprise them."
Riker: "Them? Who's them?"
Worf: "Whoever may be there."
Riker: "Our sensors indicate no life forms."
Worf: "Still, the tactic is sound."
Riker: "Agreed. Aft station, Lieutenant."
O'Brien: "Aye, sir."

Well, I don't remember that episode so can't quite get the correct context. But, I think it's actually saying, at the end;

Riker: "Agreed Lieutenant [Worf]. [Beam us to the] Aft Station [Chief]"
O'Brien: "Aye, Sir"

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:46 pm

It's available as an audio file here, about halfway down. The pacing, "agreed [slight pause] aft station, Lieutenant" implies that the "Lieutenant" is addressed to O'Brien. In addition the relevent bit of the script reads;

WORF
I am acquainted with the Yamato,
Commander. Recommend the Aft
Station of their bridge. When
in doubt, surprise them.

RIKER
Them? Who's them?

WORF
Whoever may be there.

STAR TREK: "Where Silence... " - 9/27/88 - ACT THREE 29.

65 CONTINUED:

RIKER
Sensors show no life signs.

WORF
Still, the tactic is sound.

RIKER
Agreed.
(to Transporter Chief)
Aft Station.

TRANSPORTER CHIEF
Aye, sir.

The "Lieutenant" was inserted into the bolded bit, which is specifically noted as being addressed to O'Brien.

Thorin · Post by **Thorin** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 10:53 pm

Well, it's just a cock up, then.
In universe Riker forgot who was who

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:00 pm

Thorin wrote:Well, it's just a cock up, then.
In universe Riker forgot who was who

Riker being stupid is a reasonable theory, but look at this screencap, again from "Where Silence Has Lease". It clearly shows O'Brien with a Lieutenant's pips. Out of universe, he only became an NCO when the writers needed Barclay to outrank him in "Realm of Fear".

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sun Sep 16, 2007 11:18 pm

Thanks Seafort. That sorted that problem out.

Post by **Mikey** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:21 am

Well, at least it assured us that there IS a problem...

But even on ST: Voyager, I still don't remember anybody ever being addresses as able seaman, boatswain, or any possible equivalent. And I think O'Brien's character is GREAT, but wouldn't Starfleet protocols require an officer to be Chief of Operations?

Granitehewer · Post by **Granitehewer** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:28 am

i'd blush then buy a drink to whoever shouted 'able seaman' at me....its in the genes you know