Borg Retaliation

[Captain Picard's Hair]

What OS stands for?

Operating System (e.g., Windows/Mac OS/Linux of today)

[Sionnach Glic]

When have the Borg ever transported through shields??? I thought they always had to drain them first with their tractor beams.

Nope, they can transport through shields. Probably using the same frequency loophole that their weapons and adaption processes seem to be based on.

[Deepcrush]

Well that kicks some of my thoughts on them.

[Captain Seafort]

For the first one: We have seen the borg transporting drones through shields so their transporters are at least in some way more advanced

Starfleet can also beam people through shields, as demonstrated by The Wounded and Relics

neither of those locations are going to protect you from transportation, even when those transporter problems appear the crew are able to overcome them after a while and even if the borg can't, you can't hide any significant amount of people there.

You can hide most of the population of London in the underground - it was effective against the Germans and it would be effective against the Borg. Transformers can be used to cover the entrances, and other strategic points that can be used as firebases. As for "overcoming" these problems, the only solution the E-D's crew had in Legacy was to beam in closer to the surface and move in on foot. Other methods involved using phaser to drill holes to beam down into, which would limit the Borg advance from defined LZs.

The assumption would be to say "We don't have seen those weapons, therefore doesn't exist".

Absence of evidence = evidence of absence. If you think they exist then prove it.

For the third: After that, i continued "but lets forget about that" because it doesn't matter if there are or not those drones, in this particular issue (Borg assimilating a today's Earth like planet), because they can transport us to their ship for assimilation without a fight.

Other than the examples already mentioned. Plus the problem's that would be caused by beaming up your average American and his arsenal, let alone an Afghan of Somali.

Plus, in ep Drone, One had reactive body armour; of course he isn't a ordinary drone and he had 29th century tech, but the point is now we know the borg can use body armor.

The point is also that One's body armour was specifically mentioned as a difference between him and normal drones, and does not change the fact that we have never seen the Borg equip their drones with armour, even after months of hand-to-hand fighting with 8472 in which they were still loosing drones to such attacks.

For the fourth: Yes, big assumption here, but again, in this particular issue is not really important IMO because there is no way we can hack their systems.

Why not? Starfleet managed it, and its not as if they've got any experience of hacking through decent computer security. The Chinese have a decent record against somewhat better security

[stitch626]

We have seen the Borg use beam weapons. Seven (while still Borg) in the ep with the other three ex-drones who were linked.
While it doesn't prove that they use beam weapons on a regular basis, it does prove that they have the ability to.


As for transporting up a man and his "arsenal", we've seen Federation transporters detect weapons and deactivate them, why couldn't a Borg transporter detect the gun powder (which is an explosive) and not materialize it. No gun powder = useless gun.

[Captain Seafort]

We have seen the Borg use beam weapons. Seven (while still Borg) in the ep with the other three ex-drones who were linked.

While it doesn't prove that they use beam weapons on a regular basis, it does prove that they have the ability to.

It proves nothing more than that a Borg disconnected from the collective has the ability to jury-rig a device to impose a mini-collective on other disconnected drones. Not that the Borg carry small arms.

As for transporting up a man and his "arsenal", we've seen Federation transporters detect weapons and deactivate them, why couldn't a Borg transporter detect the gun powder (which is an explosive) and not materialize it. No gun powder = useless gun.

Evidence that the Borg would even recognise a firearm as a weapon in transport? The examples we've seen of weapons being detected involve their energy signatures being recognised. Even then, the E-D's transporter failed to identify the bits-and-pieces weapon that the Klingons brought aboard in Heart of Glory.

[stitch626]

We have seen the Borg use beam weapons. Seven (while still Borg) in the ep with the other three ex-drones who were linked.

While it doesn't prove that they use beam weapons on a regular basis, it does prove that they have the ability to.

It proves nothing more than that a Borg disconnected from the collective has the ability to jury-rig a device to impose a mini-collective on other disconnected drones. Not that the Borg carry small arms.

The weapon was part of her arm. There was nothing that suggested she jury rigged it.

As for transporting up a man and his "arsenal", we've seen Federation transporters detect weapons and deactivate them, why couldn't a Borg transporter detect the gun powder (which is an explosive) and not materialize it. No gun powder = useless gun.

Evidence that the Borg would even recognise a firearm as a weapon in transport? The examples we've seen of weapons being detected involve their energy signatures being recognised. Even then, the E-D's transporter failed to identify the bits-and-pieces weapon that the Klingons brought aboard in Heart of Glory.

Fair point.

[Captain Seafort]

The weapon was part of her arm. There was nothing that suggested she jury rigged it.

Looking back over the episode it also turns out that there's no sign that it was related to re-assimilating them. Nonetheless, we still have only a single example of a drone weapon, and no example whatsoever of them being used in combat with other species.

[stitch626]

The weapon was part of her arm. There was nothing that suggested she jury rigged it.

Looking back over the episode it also turns out that there's no sign that it was related to re-assimilating them. Nonetheless, we still have only a single example of a drone weapon, and no example whatsoever of them being used in combat with other species.

True. It could be just a piece of tech they never bothered to remove after its initial use (whatever that was).

[Tsukiyumi]

The weapon was part of her arm. There was nothing that suggested she jury rigged it.

Looking back over the episode it also turns out that there's no sign that it was related to re-assimilating them. Nonetheless, we still have only a single example of a drone weapon, and no example whatsoever of them being used in combat with other species.

I don't really want to get involved here, but we also saw the Borg in the Descent TNG two-parter using very similar wrist-mounted weapons. Could be a coincidence, or it could be that some drones have weapons for some reason.

[Captain Seafort]

I don't really want to get involved here, but we also saw the Borg in the Descent TNG two-parter using very similar wrist-mounted weapons. Could be a coincidence, or it could be that some drones have weapons for some reason.

The Borg in Descent don't count in discussions towards discussions involving the collective's equipment and tactics, given how radically different they were.

[Tsukiyumi]

I don't really want to get involved here, but we also saw the Borg in the Descent TNG two-parter using very similar wrist-mounted weapons. Could be a coincidence, or it could be that some drones have weapons for some reason.

The Borg in Descent don't count in discussions towards discussions involving the collective's equipment and tactics, given how radically different they were.

True. Odd coincidence, though.

[Sionnach Glic]

Though the fact that they were using the same weapon was interesting. Hmm, maybe Seven's gun was an unsuccessful attempt by the Collective to mimic the Descent Drones' weaponary?

[stitch626]

Or perhaps they had a tool that had potential to double as a weapon. And when the Descent Borg left the collective, they enhanced it (to what we saw).

[Tsukiyumi]

Or perhaps they had a tool that had potential to double as a weapon. And when the Descent Borg left the collective, they enhanced it (to what we saw).

I like it.