Which ship could become the backbone of the Modern Starfleet

[Praeothmin]

without so much as reading an owner's manual.

But they had "Super Janeway"...

[Deepcrush]

Not exactly.
What we're describing is like replacing the brakes for a new type of brakes.
You need to replace the housing, all the brake parts, and you can't do that in the middle of nowhere without the appropriate parts and tools, and a shop, or spacedock...

You can do all of that with a carjack and about two hours.

I do agree that with the proper installations, the job might take a few weeks, if you put a lot of people on it, but I also agree with the others saying that the ship needs be in dock for these upgrades.
In the case of Voyager, it mostly consisted of replacing existing damaged parts with new working ones.
No redesign, or anything else, except for the modifications in "Endgame", which were brought from a future Janeway...

In VOY, they routinely incorporated completely alien technology into the ship, without so much as reading an owner's manual.

This just about covers it. They were able to complete the workout support of any kind using tech that was nothing like theirs.

If Voy can do it then there is no reason why a ship with 4 times the crew and resources can't.

[Captain Seafort]

How much recoil is there?

Unknown. However, what's irrefutable is that more powerful weapons would have greater recoil than the ones they were replacing.

How much work is needed to replace "pipes"?

Depends on how big the pipes are and how long they are. The stuff closest to the weapons might not be so bad, but the big ones closer to the core would be - they're about two feet across, with unknown sectional length, winding hundreds of metres, if not kilometres, through the ship.

Why do you need a stronger frame when there's nothing wrong with the current frame?

To withstand the recoil of heavier weapons, as I've already stated. Being fine for the job they've got to do doesn't mean they'll still be fine while doing a more strenuous job.

Wrapping around an area that's open and with plenty of internal space to work is a good thing.

What internal space? Remember the size of the cabins and corridors on the E-D? They're huge as living quarters, but for installing a completely new phaser array they're far too small.

As to being the most powerful weapons on the ship? Isn't every phaser on the ship a type X? The saucer phasers have the best arc.

Much longer, and the moving light effect seen most of the time a phaser fires implies that the TM description of a ramp up is at least somewhat accurate. This is slightly iffy however, given the inclusion of the TM theory.

Voy - under took massive repair work without a support base.

Unknown - it certainly completed repairs that should have been impossible, but there's the distinct possibility that they put into a friendly station for the duration of the repairs. There's also the point that, while repairs (especially after Deadlock) appeared substantial, I can't recall any example of them completely removing and replacing a major integrated system.

Defiant - increased its phaser power and added armor.

With full starbase support.

GCS - added extra phasers over the WNs without any known trouble and its not like they can just run a pipe through another large pipe.

The aft end of the nacelle appears somewhat empty, going by "Eye of the Beholder". There's also the point that this is another example of the sort of refit you're suggesting - the sort that would need a shipyard to do it.

[Bryan Moore]

I'm going to chime in on this a little bit late (per normal). As has already been mentioned, there's a lot more diversity out there. I don't see a "backbone" ship the way we saw the Excelsior. Instead, I'd see a few ships as the standard bearers for their particular missions. I could see Luna's built more for exploring, more Sovereigns for deterrance, Novas for science, etc. Instead of 1000 Excelsiors, maybe 300 of 3 different types, etc.

If that isn't practical, the Nebula would make a lot of sense.

[Captain Seafort]

In VOY, they routinely incorporated completely alien technology into the ship, without so much as reading an owner's manual.

When? I recall the Borg modifications, that big gun the arms dealer tried to sell them, and the stuff from Endgame. Of these the Endgame modifications seemed the most extensive, and they seemed to be self-contained units. Nothing resembling ripping out and replacing major parts of the ship's structure.

[Mikey]

Any of those qualify. Any benefit to installation from being modular is completely negated (and then some) by being completely alien technology. Bullets are bullets, but go out in the desert with a screwdriver and a pocketknife and see if you can mod an M-16 to fire 7.62mm rounds.

[Deepcrush]

Unknown but irrefutable...? What a great umm... refute?

Bullshit aside, we know they can do it. In the end if you decide to spend 20 years rebuilding the whole ship because you have the time or if you just spend a month next to a starbase.

Here's what we have for the Nebula Class Upgrades. Note: These improvements would be standard on any newly built Nebs.

Basic upgrades. (Quick upgrades that wont really take up to much time)
Weapons Pod
2 forward/2 aft facing rapid fire QTLs. 500 rounds.
Two phasers (either turret pulse phasers or type Xs). Lets just say you can leave it up to the captain.
Main Ship's Hull
Upgrade saucer phasers from type Xs to type XIIs.

Seafort talked about a HUGE overhaul and Teaos brought up the Hotrod idea. So lets cover that too. Lets say that since the UFP might not be building as many ships as they were during the DW. They will have shipyards and drydocks open for use. So, lets say a 6 month refit time. Just to give space for not only finishing the work but finishing quality work.

With the upgrades below. I'm taking several ideas from several members in other threads. Just bringing the ideas into one place. Some of these may or may not work.

Advanced upgrades. (If you just feel like getting picky and seeing how far you can take the Neb.)
Weapons Pod
Maybe upgrade the pod phasers to equal type XIIs. Though power supply and safety could be a problem.
Main Ship's hull
Upgrade all phasers to type XIIs. Again power supply and safety could be a problem.
Increased armor - 20cm seems about right.
More powerful or extra warp core. I don't know if we could fit another one but someone would have to do the math.
Hull mounted PTLs. Find the space somewhere maybe?
Improved shields. If you add another WC or have a more powerful one then it shouldn't be to hard.
Smaller crew quarters. This would give us space but again I don't know how much.
New bridge location. I thought that this was a good one.

[Praeothmin]

In VOY, they routinely incorporated completely alien technology into the ship, without so much as reading an owner's manual.

Sorry, I didn't think you were being serious.
In all the upgrades I saw in Voyager, they had help from the natives, and the upgrades were not done while Voyager was travelling.
Also, how long did the upgrades take?
I doubt they were instantaneous...

Just look at when they wanted to do some servicing on their Warp Coils (don't know the name of the episode).
They needed to land on a planet just to get them out of their nacelles, and the whole crew had to participate.
And this is just to clean, service and possibly do some minor repairs on parts that are just taken out and put right back in at the same place, with no need for anything to be redesigned or adapted.

You can do all of that with a carjack and about two hours.

Really?
I'm not talking about replacing the actual brake parts, but replacing the brake system with a new one.
If you change your brake size at the rear of the car, for example, you probably need to replace the braking system for the back of the car, then you need to calibrate the braking fluid pressure, no?
And you could do that on the side of the road with only a ratchet kit and a carjack?
I didn't know upgrading car parts was so easy...

[Mikey]

In all the upgrades I saw in Voyager, they had help from the natives, and the upgrades were not done while Voyager was travelling.
Also, how long did the upgrades take?
I doubt they were instantaneous...

Also, all done with incorporating completely alien, unfamiliar technology, and without a starbase or even Starfleet-friendly drydock.

Just look at when they wanted to do some servicing on their Warp Coils (don't know the name of the episode).
They needed to land on a planet just to get them out of their nacelles, and the whole crew had to participate.
And this is just to clean, service and possibly do some minor repairs on parts that are just taken out and put right back in at the same place, with no need for anything to be redesigned or adapted.

And what other ship could do that without laying up in drydock?

[Praeothmin]

Also, all done with incorporating completely alien, unfamiliar technology, and without a starbase or even Starfleet-friendly drydock.

Perhaps, but did they have the Aliens' version of a Drydock available?
Do we know what was used for the incorparation or installation?

And what other ship could do that without laying up in drydock?

I guess another ship that can land...
I'm just saying that for something that requires no incorporation of new technology, it still required a lot of efforts on the part of the entire crew of the ship.

What we're proposing is incorporating new equipment which requires new circuits, new power conduits, a lot of new stuff.
I think the idea that was proposed, to just swap the pod with QT launchers and Pulse Phasers would be easier, while you wait for the newer Nebs with the revised Phasers to come into service.

[Mikey]

Bingo!

My point all along has been that Voyager was able to do all these things with half a crew - and many of them not even Starfleet. Refits involving the proper tech, with the proper facilities and personnel, should be less exhaustive than has been theorized.

[Captain Seafort]

The key part of that is "the proper facilities". Interstellar space, with no external support, does not qualify as the proper facilities.

[Mikey]

And they were still able to do it!

[Captain Seafort]

The argument that's been made is that they could have pulled into an alien facility to do their repairs. It would certainly have been much more difficult than in a Starfleet dock, where everyone would have experience with the technology, but even with Voyager's crew alone, with a dock and the right equipment, would be a far different prospect than trying to do such in interstellar space.

[Mikey]

It's not logical to assume the existence of such an alien facility when there's no evidence of it. In fact, no such modifications were made when the ship did encounter any sortof station.