The attack on the E-C

[Mark]

To be fair, we really don't know how long the D'Ds have been in service, since the Romulans went dark for what was it, like 80 years? So, we really don't know ANYTHING about what was going on technologically speaking. But an educated guess is that since the Romulans always seem on par with everyone else that they had several classes in between the BOP and the D'D.

[Graham Kennedy]

Few random points...

I'm sure Garrett said there were four warbirds, not three.

I can't believe the Romulans have had D'Ds for 20+ years. No way. I think they are relatively recent as of TNG... five or six years in service at that point.

I have no problem at all believing that the E-C would be outgunned by four warbirds, or even two or three of them. The D'Deridex has always struck me as being an approximate match for a Galaxy; I tend to think a little weaker, some say they are somewhat stronger, but they are certainly in the ballpark IMO. I see no reason why the previous generation of warbirds wouldn't be an approximate match for the Ambassadors too.

The E-D was implied to be easily capable of defeating the warbirds. Even with a 20 year advantage I find it hard to imagine the E-D would beat four warbirds. Two, yes. Three, unlikely. Four, no.

That said, this was the alternate Battleship E-D, developed after twenty years of warfare with the Klingons. I'd imagine it would outgun the regular E-D by twofold or more, easily. So yeah, I can imagine it comfortably taking on four warbirds. Especially if they'd already taken some damage and especially with the C along to help.

[Mark]

So we could guess that the ships would be VERY roughly equel in strength to an Ambassador class then?

[Mikey]

Very roughly - that's a guess, based on the not-too-specific assumption that leading romulan classes were the approximate equals of contemporary Fed leading classes.

[Lt. Staplic]

It's not that far a streatch to think the Ambassador might have been able to take 1-2 of this type.

[Deepcrush]

I would have thought the warbirds of YE would have been roughly around the Excelsior. If it takes four of them to beat the E-C which at the time was the new top of the line ship. No proof of any kind, just a thought.

[stitch626]

Not a bad idea. It would make sense.

[Aaron]

I would have thought the warbirds of YE would have been roughly around the Excelsior. If it takes four of them to beat the E-C which at the time was the new top of the line ship. No proof of any kind, just a thought.

Seems at some point after TOS the Federation's enemies started traveling in packs, which makes sense considering that SF is often deployed alone (which implies ships that are above par with their adversaries). Of course deploying ships in a small group only makes sense if you want to achieve a victory without your lone ship requiring a tug to get home.

[Captain Picard's Hair]

Weren't the Romulans meant to be unknowns in the time of the E-C, too? E-C wouldn't have known anything about the warbirds until she encountered them, then since she was destroyed, what she learned about them would have been lost. This does suggest that perhaps the warbirds might not have been a response to the Ambassador, since the RSE would still have been in self-imposed isolation at that point and would not have seen it. They would have had experience with Excelsiors, though. This does fit into the theory of relative quiet in the time between the TOS movies and TNG, leading to pacification in the Federation and some degree of stagnation of military progress; the Romulans wouldn't have built a design to counter the Ambassador. If they produced the D'D as an effort to trump the best of what they'd seen (after Nerandra III), that might have ended up right around where the best of the Federation fleet ended up when they finally met.

For that matter, we don't even know what Romulan ships looked like during the movie era; the gap in Romulan ship designs between TOS and TNG is huge. This does lead to the question of when the name "warbird" for the type originated. In TOS they were called "Birds of Prey" IIRC, but by the time of the E-C the designation "Warbird" was apparently in use already and well known, but it must have come into use before the Romulans went back to mommy and hid under the covers. Such a shame they were neglected so much until TNG.

[Captain Seafort]

This does suggest that perhaps the warbirds might not have been a response to the Ambassador, since the RSE would still have been in self-imposed isolation at that point and would not have seen it.

Not necessarily - the fact that the Romulans weren't getting involved in Fed affairs doesn't mean they weren't watching, or conducting intelligence operations against the Feds. They could have had a decent idea of the Ambassador's capabilities before the Narendra Three encounter.

[Aaron]

Anyone else remember Sub-Commander/Ambassador Selok? Obviously the Romulans had been running undercover intelligence operations against the Federation for a long time.

[Reliant121]

I see the Romulans as being reactionate. you build one type, they design another to beat it.

[Captain Picard's Hair]

That's true. Unfortunately we don't know anything about the relative ages of the Ambassador class and the Romulan design in question (or exactly how old the Ambassador design was at that point - though it must have been around for at least a few years if we can assume the E-C had a notable career before she was lost). Perhaps the Romulans were getting ready to come out then but retreated again once the E-C's death brought the Federation and KE closer?

[Captain Picard's Hair]

I see the Romulans as being reactionate. you build one type, they design another to beat it.

They seem to have fallen behind, then, in the DS9/TNG movie era - the Valdore type seems weak as a response to the latest Fed designs and the Negh'Var class

[Captain Picard's Hair]

- or, if it was a reaction to the Galaxy class, they took their time getting it out, such that it was outclassed when it left the yards