Was Shinzon a Pawn?

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:24 am

Sorry, I couldn't even pretend that TWoK sucks.

Lt. Staplic · Post by **Lt. Staplic** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:44 am

which is harder, pretending TwoK was bad or NEM was unbelievably amazing?

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:48 am

I don't see either as possible. First I would have to pretend that GWBush was a good leader, Enron was a friend of the people and I'd have to like the french.

Lt. Staplic · Post by **Lt. Staplic** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:49 am

ouch, that is hard.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:52 am

Good that we understand each other isn't it.

Lt. Staplic · Post by **Lt. Staplic** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 6:00 am

yes it is

I was just joking incase that was lost in digitation

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:03 am

It certainly would explain why Romulus sent such a half-assed attempt to aid the E-E in stopping him.

Aye. If they knew the Scimitar was unable to endure any serious prolonged action, sending just a couple of warbirds makes senes. It doesn't really matter to the Romulans whether or not Earth gets busted by the Scimitar, but by sending a token force to assist the UFP they can claim that Shinzon's actions were not on behalf of the RSE, and avoid a war with the UFP.

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:22 am

I doubt there was a specific plot to allow Shinzon to take power as a puppet, exactly. I think it's more likely a Hitler-style deal. There wasn't some grand conspiracy to get Hitler into power, but a lot of people did take the attitude "we will let the Nazis get rid of the Communists, then we'll step in and get rid of the Nazis". I'd be willing to bet that a lot of government types sat back and thought "well we can let Shinzon wipe out all the moderates, and then we can step in and get rid of him."

Nickswitz · Post by **Nickswitz** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:33 pm

But they didn't realize that he was building a kick-butt ubership in their backyard, that he could completely annihilate the whole entire Romulan fleet with?
Just saying

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:54 pm

Well Remans are shock troops of the Empire and all that. And with mines on Remus, I don't find it hard to believe they have a lot of shipyards there too. Not impossible to get your own ship built under those circumstances.

Nickswitz · Post by **Nickswitz** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:06 pm

True, I'm just saying, shouldn't a Romulan noticed a gigantic ship frame in the shipyards one day, that didn't look Romulan?
Unless the Romulans aren't actually watching the Remans , in which case it serves them right.

katefan · Post by **katefan** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 6:39 pm

I just found too many holes in the movie to possibly enjoy it, from the Reman super ship to the idea that any Romulan is going to trust the human clone who has no reason whatsoever to do anything good for the people who shunted his ass off to the mines to die.

Sure, Star Trek IV used the probe plot from ST I, but at least the solution to the problem was considerably different. The tone of the two films are very different as well. In Nemesis it pretty much came down to a doomsday countdown and the science guy sacrificing his life after downloading his "soul" into someone else.

The jokes fell flat, Worf's appearance made about as much sense here as it did in Insurrection, B4's presence was useless, etc. etc. etc. Just a crap movie from opening credits to end.

Post by **Graham Kennedy** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 7:23 pm

Is there any reason to think the Romulans in the shipyards didn't know about the Scimitar? I see no reason why is couldn't have been a new design that the Romulans were developing in secret, and which Shinzon and his supporters fitted with the Thalaron thing themselves and took it over as part of the coup.

Post by **Captain Seafort** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 8:05 pm

GrahamKennedy wrote:Is there any reason to think the Romulans in the shipyards didn't know about the Scimitar? I see no reason why is couldn't have been a new design that the Romulans were developing in secret, and which Shinzon and his supporters fitted with the Thalaron thing themselves and took it over as part of the coup.

I see no problem with the concept of the entire thing being a new Romulan design, including the Thaleron device. I do see a problem with the idea of of the Remans designing and building the thing on their own at all, let alone without the Romulans' knowledge.

katefan · Post by **katefan** » Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:49 pm

From the way the Scimitar (and what a very Romulan name it is. Almost as Romulan as Scorpion class shuttles) was built with it's unfolding wings it seemed that the Thalaron device was an inherent part of the ship, so it could not have been added on later.

That suggests to me that it could have been a doomsday weapon designed by the Romulans to be used against the Dominion, to target the Founder homeworld. Perhaps after the war was over the ship sat in mothballs since there was no immediate use for it. Section 31 had their own doomsday weapon after all so I could see the Tal Shiar doing much the same.

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