Was Shinzon a Pawn?

[Sonic Glitch]

I like the explanation Shatner used in Captain's Blood (i think that was it): They're discussing Shinzon's rebellion and wondering how a slave managed to build and crew an uber-ship, and Worf provides the obviousl explanation: "Someone who is not a slave gives it to him."

So yes, I'd say Shinzon was a pawn and if they did a sequel from that angle it would be great.

[Deepcrush]

So yes, I'd say Shinzon was a pawn and if they did a sequel from that angle it would be great.

If for whatever reason the did do a sequel then yes it would make sense. I would like to see a movie that covers more then just the TNG class reunion.

[Sonic Glitch]

So yes, I'd say Shinzon was a pawn and if they did a sequel from that angle it would be great.

If for whatever reason the did do a sequel then yes it would make sense. I would like to see a movie that covers more then just the TNG class reunion.

It'd be nice wouldn't it. Heck, I'd take a made-for-TV movie or miniseries for Post-Nemesis Trek.

[Lt. Staplic]

sorry to be the party pooper, however we have canon evidence that Shinzon and his army built the Scimitar themselves in secrete.

[katefan]

sorry to be the party pooper, however we have canon evidence that Shinzon and his army built the Scimitar themselves in secrete.

What is the evidence? If Shizon said it, that could simply be misinformation on his part.

Then again, there would have been little reason to lie, would there? If Shizon and the Remans somehow built this technological terror on their own that makes yet another stupid element to the movie.

[Captain Seafort]

What is the evidence? If Shizon said it, that could simply be misinformation on his part.

Then again, there would have been little reason to lie, would there?

Of course there would - to brag about the technological skills of the Remans, justifiably or not.

[Sionnach Glic]

Aye, he's hardly going to say "yeah, my supporters are a bunch of backwards barbarians and I had to steal all the good stuff from my enemy".

[Lt. Staplic]

take it how you want, I just thought I should inform you that we know have a canon quote that Shinzon built the Scimitar in secrete. the quote comes while he and Picard are meeting in the Romulan Senate, near the end of the conversation.

I personally don't see any reason to lie there, he's trying to get to know Picard, and there's no one else around to impress. He would know that something like that wouldn't really impress Picard so...

[Praeothmin]

I personally don't see any reason to lie there, he's trying to get to know Picard, and there's no one else around to impress. He would know that something like that wouldn't really impress Picard so...

Well, seeing as how he wasn't totally honest with Picard...
I mean, after all, he didn't tell him he was going to try and steal his blood, or that he was the one who left B-4 where he was found, or about the Thalaron weapon, so why the heck should we believe anything he tells Picard about how the ship was built?

[Sionnach Glic]

Indeed. He's hardly the height of honesty. He could have said it just to make his achievements sound more impressive.

[Praeothmin]

Or simply to hide his Romulan Masters' part in his plans/actions...

If this was secretly planned by some Romulan military faction, I'm sure they impressed upon Shinzon how important secrecy was.
Since Shinzon was pretty good at deception, and proved himself duplicitous, I see no reason to accept his claims at face value.

[Sonic Glitch]

sorry to be the party pooper, however we have canon evidence that Shinzon and his army built the Scimitar themselves in secrete.

I'm very much aware of that quote, and it has been running through my head during this debate, but if we assume the Romulan's are competent (and there's no reason we shouldn't), the likelyhood of an army's-worth of slaves managing to disappear and build or steal an uber-ship is astronomically low.

And he did seem very much like he was posturing, he wants Picard to think of him as the Golden Boy, competent, in charge, ready to work for peace and what have you. He'd need to appear strong to be accepted as a real leader. Or something like that.

[Mark]

Shinzon doesn't strike me as the kind of nutjob to "serve" anybody. But he DOES strike me as a perfect unwitting "dupe".