GCS Deflector Weapon - BOBW

[Captain Seafort]

the TM states the PT yields in the megaton range i have stated.

The TM is non-canon.

Also, if we look at ST firepower destructive capability closely, events like the Romulan Cardassian bombardment of the founders homeworld in TDiC indicate massive amounts of firepower, destroying 30% of the planet's crust in the opening volley.

There are many problems with TDiC.

1) Visuals. No massive fireballs, sub-orbital ejecta, or exposed mantle, all of which would be inevitable consequences of the damage described. While phaser/disruptor fire may destroy large areas of crust without such effects, due to their chain-reaction method, PTs are direct energy transfer weapons, and so would produce such fireballs.

2) Directly contradicts numerous other weapon and shielding figures (Pegasus: high kt/low Mt PTs, Rise: ditto, Relics: low Mt shield capacity, Battle Lines: low GJ limits for runabout shields, The Survivors: 400 GW KE limit for GCS shields, Deja Q: warp 9 power is approximately 30 PW (about 7 Mt/s), Masterpiece Society: GCS power output (presumably that available for general use, excluding the warp drive) is somewhere between 1 TW and 1 PW).

3) The Dominion was feeding back false sensor returns to the fleet.

[kostmayer]

I guess there's no evidence to suggest this, but the fleet in TDiC was essentially built for the sole purpose of destroying the founders homeworld - they might not have had standard weapons fitted.

After the first volley, one of Tain's crew reports no change in life signs - should you really be able to distinguish individual Founders lifesigns in the Great Link? As Seafort has stated, the sensor readings were all faked, but someone shoud have found it suspicious.

[Captain Seafort]

I guess there's no evidence to suggest this, but the fleet in TDiC was essentially built for the sole purpose of destroying the founders homeworld - they might not have had standard weapons fitted.

They might have been optimised for maximum firepower over accuracy, but they'd still be constrained by their technical base - they're not going to jump to TT-range weapons overnight after centuries of kt/Mt-range weapons.

[SteveK]

the TM states the PT yields in the megaton range i have stated.

The TM is non-canon.

Also, if we look at ST firepower destructive capability closely, events like the Romulan Cardassian bombardment of the founders homeworld in TDiC indicate massive amounts of firepower, destroying 30% of the planet's crust in the opening volley.

There are many problems with TDiC.

1) Visuals. No massive fireballs, sub-orbital ejecta, or exposed mantle, all of which would be inevitable consequences of the damage described. While phaser/disruptor fire may destroy large areas of crust without such effects, due to their chain-reaction method, PTs are direct energy transfer weapons, and so would produce such fireballs.

2) Directly contradicts numerous other weapon and shielding figures (Pegasus: high kt/low Mt PTs, Rise: ditto, Relics: low Mt shield capacity, Battle Lines: low GJ limits for runabout shields, The Survivors: 400 GW KE limit for GCS shields, Deja Q: warp 9 power is approximately 30 PW (about 7 Mt/s), Masterpiece Society: GCS power output (presumably that available for general use, excluding the warp drive) is somewhere between 1 TW and 1 PW).

3) The Dominion was feeding back false sensor returns to the fleet.

Re # 3 Fake or not, the sensor readings must've been approximately what they were expecting.

[Mark]

You know, there was something I never understood about that planetary bombardment. If I was trying to destroy a planet used DS9 era weapons, I'd use beam weapons to blast a big hole down to the planets core, then open up down the hole with high powered explosives. Wouldn't that use tectonic stresses to my advantage and blow the whole planet to pieces?

[Victory is Life]

No one on the bridge of the romulan flagship expressed surprised at their weapons' destructive capabilities, which logically dictates that they fully expected those results. they even calculated how long the mantle would take to be destroyed. I realize that this is a level of destruction that we are not accustomed to in Trek, and anti-trek pundits would quickly point out that we are 'wanking', yet it has been said in various iterations, on screen, which is considered canon, that the Defiant could 'reduce a planet to a cinder' and that the e-nil could destroy a planet on its own. Therefore, saying that the TDiC canon onscreen evidence is somehow falsified sensor readings, or an NDF effect of some kind does not seem right. SF shots on TV are not always grand or accurate, and simply because we saw no ejecta or what-have-you, it does not negate the clearly stated result that the opening volley obliterated 30% of the planetary crust. canon is canon.

[Captain Seafort]

it has been said in various iterations, on screen, which is considered canon, that the Defiant could 'reduce a planet to a cinder' and that the e-nil could destroy a planet on its own.

Agreed. If you chuck dozens of 1 Mt torpedoes at a planet, supported by kt range phasers capable of removing far more rock than DET weapons of the same firepower, you will wreck the planet.

SF shots on TV are not always grand or accurate, and simply because we saw no ejecta or what-have-you, it does not negate the clearly stated result that the opening volley obliterated 30% of the planetary crust. canon is canon.

Canon is indeed canon. The Romulans did indeed state that their opening volley destroyed 30% of the crust. However, since we could see the planet, and there was no sign of the flying debris or exposed mantle you expect from TT range weapons, their analysis was evidently wrong. Since we know the Dominion was sending back false senor returns, this provides an explanation as to why they were mistaken.

[Victory is Life]

it has been said in various iterations, on screen, which is considered canon, that the Defiant could 'reduce a planet to a cinder' and that the e-nil could destroy a planet on its own.

Agreed. If you chuck dozens of 1 Mt torpedoes at a planet, supported by kt range phasers capable of removing far more rock than DET weapons of the same firepower, you will wreck the planet.

SF shots on TV are not always grand or accurate, and simply because we saw no ejecta or what-have-you, it does not negate the clearly stated result that the opening volley obliterated 30% of the planetary crust. canon is canon.

Canon is indeed canon. The Romulans did indeed state that their opening volley destroyed 30% of the crust. However, since we could see the planet, and there was no sign of the flying debris or exposed mantle you expect from TT range weapons, their analysis was evidently wrong. Since we know the Dominion was sending back false senor returns, this provides an explanation as to why they were mistaken.

Understood, yet you do not address the lack of surprise of the crew, which indicates this is indeed the desired result.

[Captain Seafort]

Understood, yet you do not address the lack of surprise of the crew, which indicates this is indeed the desired result.

Their briefing on the expected effects of the bombardment came from Colonel Lovok. A Founder. The manpower for the mission came entirely from members of intelligence agencies that focused on surveillance of their own populations - they weren't naval personnel. It's probable that they had trained on simulations provided by Lovok. While assuming gross incompetence is an analysis of last resort, there are many cases in Trek where we're left with no other option.

[Victory is Life]

Understood, yet you do not address the lack of surprise of the crew, which indicates this is indeed the desired result.

Their briefing on the expected effects of the bombardment came from Colonel Lovok. A Founder. The manpower for the mission came entirely from members of intelligence agencies that focused on surveillance of their own populations - they weren't naval personnel. It's probable that they had trained on simulations provided by Lovok. While assuming gross incompetence is an analysis of last resort, there are many cases in Trek where we're left with no other option.

I am sure, that despite the briefing by the the founder posing as Lovok, that the obsidian order/tal shiar, are well aware of the capabilities of their own weaponry, and that planetary masses remain relatively constant whether in the AQ or the GQ.

[Coalition]

You know, there was something I never understood about that planetary bombardment. If I was trying to destroy a planet used DS9 era weapons, I'd use beam weapons to blast a big hole down to the planets core, then open up down the hole with high powered explosives. Wouldn't that use tectonic stresses to my advantage and blow the whole planet to pieces?

Aren't tectonic stresses caused by continents being tugged by the mantle, causing them to slowly collide with each other? If yo succeed to making the hole into the mantle, you are just working with liquid rock there, and the crust will fall in.

Similar to shooting a gun into a lake, to drill a hole to the bottom. You might get a brief hole, but unless you can fire a lot of bullets, really fast, for a long time, it isn't going to work. An air hose might be better, but even then you will need a lot of air going through the hose, so it doesn't turn into a fancy bubbler.

[Captain Seafort]

Visuals vs dialogue discussion split to here