How did the Borg come about?

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:17 pm

Deepcrush wrote:I think i said it once before but i feel the need to say it once again. I try to forget most things from ent as it tends to cause me pain trying to understand it.

I like to remember the cool stainless looking skin of the Enterprise, and T'Pol's breasts...

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:52 pm

It doesn't fit with the way the Borg were originaly introduced.
At first, they were completely alien. No leaders, no VIPs, no weak points, no individualism. The race as a whole just went constantly onwards, seeking to assimilate everything without any real reason.
The very existance of the Queen is completely against all of that.

Not really there are plenty of reasons why they may have the queen.

They seek perfection. Maybe they realized that having a queen or a number of queens as it appears is more perfect than not.

It gives added structure which improves effecency which seems to be a big thing for them.

Captain Peabody · Post by **Captain Peabody** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:19 pm

Personally, I've always really hated a lot of the changes made to the Borg for 'coolness's sake.' I really liked the force of nature idea for the Borg; they were the ultimate inscrutable foe; unstoppable, totally beyond our comprehension. Just something to stay out of the way of. But now they just seem to be a bunch of space zombies with mustache-twirling villain in the center. Boring.
First Contact was cool, though.

Post by **Teaos** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:47 pm

But the unstoppable force that the Borg were originally would have been all but impossible to use anymore. We couldnt beat them and if we did it would again be destroying what people consider to be "true borg"

Sure Voyager may have gon a bit far but they needed to either change or disapear.

Post by **Mikey** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:15 pm

Perhaps. But we can still be annoyed by the lack of continuity in universe, no matter the reason it was done in RL - i.e., to let the writers' off the hook for actually being creative or something...

Jim · Post by **Jim** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:26 pm

Mikey wrote:Perhaps. But we can still be annoyed by the lack of continuity in universe, no matter the reason it was done in RL - i.e., to let the writers' off the hook for actually being creative or something...

I would like to point out that it was actually a lack of creativity that caused the change. The writers apparently came up with a character/race that was basically useless after only a couple appearances. A race that has shipt that powerful would be 100% impossable to go up against if they had any sort of number. One Borg cube caused the Federation to fall to it's knees a few times. A race that assimilated everyone and everything would have vast numbers. In their original incarnation, a force of only 5 cubes could easily have assimilated the ENTIRE AQ, imho. That is not good writing, that is a lack of forethought.

Post by **Tsukiyumi** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 12:50 pm

On the other hand, they could've introduced another equally powerful race at war with the Borg and have the Alpha Quadrant be the unwilling battlefield, with all the major races swept up in a massive war arc trying to aid the newcomers. Just a thought.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:29 pm

But the unstoppable force that the Borg were originally would have been all but impossible to use anymore. We couldnt beat them and if we did it would again be destroying what people consider to be "true borg"

Sure Voyager may have gon a bit far but they needed to either change or disapear.

Not really. They were originaly portrayed as powerful, and well out of the Federation's league, but they were never portrayed as invinceable. In the very first encounter, the Enterprise managed to cause damage to the cube on several ocasions. They could be beat, but only through fleet actions.
Congrats on 2000, by the way.

And congrats on the promotion, Mikey.

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:33 pm

But everytime you hit the cube it adapted. Whats to stop them from adapting to fleet warfare. The Borg in the way they were originally portrayed were useless as an enemy as they could not be defeated more than once or twice with out "ruining" them again.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:41 pm

Jim wrote:That is not good writing, that is a lack of forethought.

It's neither. What the Borg were originally - an barely-stoppable amoral (as opposed to immoral) force - were as close to Roddenberry's original vision for them as could be put on a TV screen. No writer just came up with an idea for the Borg. That was a part of Roddenberry's mindset when TNG was envisioned. Maybe you like it, maybe you don't; but they were as they were, and to just completely change the whole concept of the Borg to make writing easier and less of a creative task is simply unconscionable.

Post by **Teaos** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:47 pm

But that idea is crap. An almost unstoppable enemy? How do you stop that more than once with out it seeming rediculous? Throw a Dues Ex Machina in every time they show up? Yeah thats great for a story.

Sionnach Glic · Post by **Sionnach Glic** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:55 pm

But everytime you hit the cube it adapted. Whats to stop them from adapting to fleet warfare.

They can't infinitely adapt to massive amounts of power. They've been shown to be vulnerable to standard phaser fire against multiple ships.

The Borg in the way they were originally portrayed were useless as an enemy as they could not be defeated more than once or twice with out "ruining" them again.

Of course, you couldn't have them as an enemy who popped up every second episode. Do what TNG did, and save them for massive battles, season finales, plot elements, etc.

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:05 pm

The borg could be a very powerful driving force for the show. Think about it, if you have an enemy that you can't beat now but if you work hard enough you might have a chance then well you could open up the books for what ever you want. There would be no end to it all. It would leave so much room for growth in both story line and character/race development.

Post by **Mikey** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:29 pm

Teaos wrote:But that idea is crap. An almost unstoppable enemy? How do you stop that more than once with out it seeming rediculous? Throw a Dues Ex Machina in every time they show up? Yeah thats great for a story.

Better than turning the Borg into the DQ buffoons that Voyager made of them.

Deepcrush wrote:The borg could be a very powerful driving force for the show. Think about it, if you have an enemy that you can't beat now but if you work hard enough you might have a chance then well you could open up the books for what ever you want. There would be no end to it all. It would leave so much room for growth in both story line and character/race development.

Too bad you're telling us instead of having told the writing staff...

Deepcrush · Post by **Deepcrush** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:31 pm

Look at my face! Do you think a bunch of writers are going to listen to a hick!